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Thread: The Bible and Abortion

  1. #46
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nydhogg View Post
    The exegesis of that particular Bible verse is complicated.
    Exegesis? Exegesis?

    Try believing the Bible rather than try and say what it really means. It says life for life. Why don't you just believe what it says? It has already been established that the mother is harmed. It then says if no harm then no harm. God is no longer talking about the mother. This isn't hard. In fact, this is just like the perverts that try and distort the gospel. You are the same kind of snake.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

  2. #47
    Old Timer Nydhogg's Avatar
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    Hey, I don't even believe the Bible. I was challenged to state a coherent Biblical position according to Exodus that doesn't mean what Knight says it means, and I did.

    Just for the sake of argument.

    I'd kinda like for Knight to argue my interpretation and I'm quite willing to accept defeat if my points are rebutted.

  3. #48
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    I am still waiting for someone to define PERSONHOOD in scripture. What is personhood?

    Once that is established then we could discuss abortion. Which I do not support in all cases.
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  4. #49
    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    I am still waiting for someone to define PERSONHOOD in scripture.
    You'll be waiting a long time for an acceptable answer.

    Personhood is not "defined". It is conferred. By God. What God has called good let no man call waste.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.


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    Old Timer Nydhogg's Avatar
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    Mainstream Jewish theology hold that abortion in case of risk of death to the mother is mandatory. Even Orthodox judaism teaches it.

    Which would more than likely suggest that "harm" referring to the mother is certainly a mainstream interpretation. The vast majority of modern Jewish theologians and medieval Church fathers interpreted "harm" as referring to the mother.

    It's the manslaughter of the pregnant mother which calls blood for blood instead of the traditional exile, not the manslaughter of the unborn child.

    If it were, the second part of the passage would use the Hebrew word for manslaughter and not the Hebrew word for "birth".

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    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nydhogg View Post
    Mainstream Jewish theology hold that abortion in case of risk of death to the mother is mandatory. Even Orthodox judaism teaches it.
    Mainstream Jewish theologians also think men evolved from fish, so I wouldn't put too much stock in their ability to properly convey God's word.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.


  7. #52
    Old Timer Nydhogg's Avatar
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    They've got a 3000 year head start in butting heads with the OT. I'd gladly lend them the utmost credence in that particular thing.

    Not to mention that Biblical literalism is a 19th century fad, and most folks have usually interpreted Genesis allegorically.

    By the way, we DID evolve from fish, albeit it was a long, long time ago.

  8. #53
    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nydhogg View Post
    They've got a 3000 year head start in butting heads with the OT. I'd gladly lend them the utmost credence in that particular thing.
    Long time to let tradition and compromise rot the brain.

    Not to mention that Biblical literalism is a 19th century fad
    You just made that up.

    Most folks have usually interpreted Genesis allegorically.
    Atheists love to appeal to the popularity of something as if it was evidence.

    By the way, we DID evolve from fish, albeit it was a long, long time ago.
    You say that like it's a fact. Evolution is just a theory.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.


  9. #54
    Old Timer Nydhogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Evolution is just a theory.
    My favorite.

    Are you familiar with the scientific definitions of conjecture and theory?

    A theory, in science, means a conceptual model of reality that fits the existing evidence and is internally consistent. Theories are held as true until new, hard evidence falsifies them, or a new conceptual model better explains the facts.

    A theory is the HIGHEST degree of "truth" the scientific method (with its inherent systematic skepticism) allows.


    The equivalent in scientific terms to what is vulgarly called "theory" is "conjecture.", which is akin to saying "hey guys, perhaps it works this way."

    The intermediate term between the "guess" (conjecture) and the "fact" (theory) is the hypothesis.

    In scientific terms you meant: But evolution is just a conjecture! And sorry to disappoint you, but a conjecture it ain't.

    It graduated from that a while ago from conjecture to full-fledged theory. Like Gravitation, Thermodynamics or General Relativity.

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    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nydhogg View Post
    My favorite. Are you familiar with the scientific definitions of conjecture and theory? A theory, in science, means a conceptual model of reality that fits the existing evidence and is internally consistent. Theories are held as true until new, hard evidence falsifies them, or a new conceptual model better explains the facts. A theory is the HIGHEST degree of "truth" the scientific method (with its inherent systematic skepticism) allows. The equivalent in scientific terms to what is vulgarly called "theory" is "conjecture.", which is akin to saying "hey guys, perhaps it works this way." The intermediate term between the "guess" (conjecture) and the "fact" (theory) is the hypothesis. In scientific terms you meant: But evolution is just a conjecture! And sorry to disappoint you, but a conjecture it ain't. It graduated from that a while ago from conjecture to full-fledged theory. Like Gravitation, Thermodynamics or General Relativity.
    So you really think evolution is a fact?
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.


  11. #56
    Old Timer Nydhogg's Avatar
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    Yes. The theory fits the facts. Not being a fundamentalist Christian (or a christian at all for that matter) I don't reject science's reasoned claims in favor of dogma.

    We know genetics and mutation. We know natural selection to be true.

    We have even observed the beginning of speciation in a bird species, which is highly exciting! Separate populations of a certain species of seagull have stopped being able to mate with each other because they no longer recognize each other's mating signals.

    Those populations, even if they coexist, can't miscegenate anymore. They're rather small, so we now have isolation+small gene pool to get variation to really kick in!

    In a few hundred of generations, if someone crossed a member of population A and a member of population B artificially he would not be able to get fertile offspring out of that. Speciation achieved.

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    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nydhogg View Post
    Yes.
    There's no possible way it could be false?
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.


  13. #58
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    You'll be waiting a long time for an acceptable answer.

    Personhood is not "defined". It is conferred. By God. What God has called good let no man call waste.
    Where?

    I got the time to wait.

    What is a person?
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  14. #59
    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Where?
    What where?

    I got the time to wait.
    OK.

    What is a person?
    I will not define what is and is not a person. I will simply recognise that God created people called Adam and Eve and commanded them to multiply. If you have some evidence that their offspring are not people then I'll reject it in the order you present it. Until such a time I am perfectly justified in sticking with the status quo. Even if I'm wrong, what harm might that do?

    What harm might you do if you are wrong?
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.


  15. #60
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nydhogg View Post
    I was challenged to state a coherent Biblical position according to Exodus that doesn't mean what Knight says it means, and I did.
    So life for life doesn't mean life for life. I rest against you.

    Just for the sake of argument.
    No, for the sake of the child.

    I'd kinda like for Knight to argue my interpretation and I'm quite willing to accept defeat if my points are rebutted.
    Interpretation? It is already in English. You don't need a hebrew interpreter.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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