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Thread: The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

  1. #16
    Registered User PENIEL's Avatar
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    Exclamation FREEEEAAAAKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!

    FREAK, Have you been Baptised ???

    And if so, in what manner ??

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    Over 3000 post club Freak's Avatar
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    After my conversion to Christ I was water baptized.

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    Journeyman o2bwise's Avatar
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    Thumbs down LIAR!

    Hello Freak,

    So when he refers to baptism it is a baptism unto a different Jesus. So this baptism is not a legit baptism but a false one. Hence my statements and my concerns.

    There is NOTHING in the content of your introduction to this topic nor in ANY post subsequent to this, that HINTS that your concern was that it was "unto a different Jesus."

    YOU ARE A LIAR!!!

    o2

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    Over 3000 post club Freak's Avatar
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    Paul did you read any further? Apparently not! For if you had you would have not made such uninformed comment.

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    Over 3000 post club Freak's Avatar
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    o2bewise,

    You are a false teacher. Your the one claiming that baptism unto a false Jesus will save one.

  6. #21
    Journeyman o2bwise's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Get Away From Me, Satan!

    You are a false teacher. Your the one claiming that baptism unto a false Jesus will save one.

    Even were this to be so, this does not IN ANY WAY nullify the fact that YOU ARE A LIAR.

    Your whole point, in starting this topic, was to point out that I am heretical because I believe baptism is a part of the gospel.

    YOU DID NOT OFFER ANY CONDITIONS, SUCH AS "A BAPTISM UNTO A FALSE JESUS." You said baptism, PERIOD and you even cited 1 Corinthians 15 and stated that Paul makes no mention of baptism.

    YOU PATHETIC LIAR. YOU ARE UNSCHOOLED IN THE FIRST PRINCIPLES OF THE SCHOOL OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS TO ACKNOWLEDGE WHEN ONE'S OWN SIN IS AT HIS DOOR. YOU HAVE DONE IT BEFORE AND YOU DO IT AGAIN.

    NOW YOU CHANGE THE "STORY" SO AS TO DECEITFULLY STEER YOURSELF AWAY FROM ANY WRONGDOING. WHAT A PATHETIC, DECEITFUL LIAR YOU ARE.

    LIAR!!!

  7. #22
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    Observing from the sidelines

    Well, there's no love lost between Freak and Ob.Anyway when one receives the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" it comes on a person THROUGH faith and is not administered through titles, such as "in the name of Jesus". When the disciples were spirit baptised at Pentecost they were simply praying and the Holy Spirit fell upon them.But when Peter gave his sermom about repenting and being baptised, he was refering to WATER baptism "in the name of Jesus".

    I believe Ob is right in some areas.Paul wasn't big on water baptism.And water baptism is NOT part of the gospel message.It COMPLIMENTS it as SYMBOLICALLY picturuing the death and burial of Christ, but never is the heart of the gospel itself. But nevertheless Paul didn't abandon water baptism as some think.For if you read the account of where he dealt with the phillipian jailor and his famil in Acts 16 you will see that right AFTER he preached Jesus Christ to them he took them out to be baptised THAT VERY NIGHT.Yes, Paul considered baptism of spiritual importance.

  8. #23
    Over 500 post club Kevin's Avatar
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    Exclamation Baptism IS commanded and should be unconditionally OBEYED!

    Freak,

    You said:

    Since you think baptism is part of the Gospel I stand by all my statements.

    Have you read 1 Cor. 15 where paul clealry explained what the Gospel is? Hint: It has nothing to do with baptism.
    I believe that the baptism of Jesus (which includes water) IS necessary for salvation. I marvel at your above statement. You don't think that baptism is part of the gospel message??? Please examine the following passage with me:

    Matthew 28:19,20

    19) "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

    20) teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.



    Jesus is clearly commanding the disciples to go out into the world and baptize people. He then goes on to say that those people must be taught to obey ALL things that He commanded the disciples to do. ALL things. In verse 19, baptism was commanded. If Jesus says that we should "observe all things that I have commanded you", which includes baptism, who are you to say it's not necessary?!

    If somebody goes out and supposedly preaches the gospel to somebody but leaves out baptism, is that observing all things that Jesus commanded to be observed? No. That would make that person disobedient to Jesus. And Hebrews 5:9 states:

    9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

    So Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to who? All that obey Him. What do you think that says about people who don't obey Him? I'll let you figure that one out....
    Praise be to God!

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    Originally posted by Freak
    Please be aware my fellow believers that when o2bewise mentions Jesus , he is referring to another Jesus. The Biblical Jesus is eternal God, o2bewise dismisses this vital truth. So when he refers to baptism it is a baptism unto a different Jesus. So this baptism is not a legit baptism but a false one. Hence my statements and my concerns.
    It seems to me that Freak's point is ....For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Cor. 12:13 (KJV)

    If o2bwise believes that Christ is separate from the Father then who's Spirit are we baptized by? Is it the Spirit of God or the Spirit of Christ?

  10. #25
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    Baptismal Regeneration is a false doctine. We are saved by Faith Alone in Christ Alone.

    The Bible says righteosness is imputed by faith. (Romans Chapter 4)

    I would like to see one Bible verse that says righteousness is imputed by Baptism, one verse will do fine.

  11. #26
    Over 500 post club Kevin's Avatar
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    Smile

    HardCoreFundie,

    I would like to adress the things you said.

    We are saved by Faith Alone in Christ Alone.
    Compare that with....

    James 2:17

    17) Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

    I could not possibly put it any plainer than the Bible has. Faith ALONE does not save us.

    Next you said:

    I would like to see one Bible verse that says righteousness is imputed by Baptism, one verse will do fine.
    Fine.

    Mark 16:16

    16) He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

    I'm going to assume you've heard this arguement before and attempt to address your probable rebuttle. If this is not the case, I apologize.

    I'm assuming that you are going to point out that the condition for condemnation only mentions belief, and nothing about baptism. The answer to this is quite simple: If somebody doesn't believe, then that person is already lost and won't reach the point of baptism. For why would one get baptized into something that he/she doesn't believe in? They wouldn't, and therefore there was no need to mention baptism, because that person is already lost.

    Pay close attention to the requirements listed in the begining of that verse that is required for salvation. Belief AND baptism. The significance of the word "and" is essential to understanding this verse's meaning. Two, not one, two conditions HAVE to be met before one can be saved: Belief and baptism! The latter part of that verse doesn't make any difference to the clearly illustrated requirements for salvation.
    Last edited by Kevin; September 8th, 2001 at 09:39 PM.
    Praise be to God!

  12. #27
    Over 3000 post club Freak's Avatar
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    o2bewise,

    Before losing your cool reread my posts.

    You will notice I denounce your false teaching that somehow baptism is a part of the Gospel, it is not. This is not a change from my purpose of this thread. You my friend have chosen to keep in theological darkness. This will only cost your eternal soul as you reject the Biblical Jesus.

    You may be able to deceive some on this forum with your demonic lies but you have NOT deceived me. You promote a false salvation, a false baptism, and a false Jesus.

    Kevin,

    Have you read 1 Cor. 15? If you had you will admit that baptism is not part of the Gospel, it is merely a response to the message of the Gospel.

  13. #28
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    Thumbs down All American . . . Freak

    Freak is like Senator McCarthy during the Cold War who Labeled anyone who did not fit his personal definition of a good American as a Commi Pinko Traitor .

    Freak is doing the same in the name of his own brand of Orthodox Religion.

    URL=http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/entertainment/july-dec97/blacklist_10-24.html

  14. #29
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    Exclamation

    Freak,

    Have you read 1 Cor. 15? If you had you will admit that baptism is not part of the Gospel, it is merely a response to the message of the Gospel.
    Sorry Freak, but I will admit to no such thing. Let's look at the 1 Cor. 15, verses 1 and 2:

    1) Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you recieved and in which you stand,
    2) by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you-unless you believed in vain.


    Freak, the first thing I would like to point out is that this is a letter to the brethren of Corinth, not to a group of people who had not been converted/saved. The importance of this fact cannot be overstated. Notice that Paul says in verse 2 " by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you". "Preached", being past-tense, means that the gospel message had already been preached to them. If somebody has already been converted (in which baptism is a part of that process), then of course there would be no mention of that. Baptism is a one time deal, and it allows us as sinful humans to put away our bodies of sin and be reborn in Christ Jesus (Romans 6:3-6).

    What I'm getting at is that these brethren at Corinth had already been baptized. How do I know that? Because there is a clear example in the Bible of sinners being converted and becoming brethren, it's in Acts chapter 2, the first recorded gospel message (good news) to some jews. Let's examine it.

    In Acts chapter 2, Peter is preaching to the Jews and going over a brief history with them, leading up to the point of letting them know that they were responsible for crucifying the Son of God. It says that the Jews were "cut to the heart" and asked Peter and the rest of the apostles what they had to do be saved. The very clear response is in verse 38:

    Acts 2:38

    38) Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

    Two conditions had to be met before people could recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit, thus being saved:

    1) Repentance
    2) Baptism

    This is a command that is given in the imperative mood and was to be obeyed at once. Both repentance and baptism carry equal authority, and must be obeyed in order for the result to happen; the recieving of the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Notice also verse 41:

    41) Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.

    This shows that the Jews indeed obeyed the command to be baptized, and as a result, "about three thousand souls were added to them."

    Notice that this verse does NOT say something like "Then those who glady recieved his word had their souls added to them, and then they were baptized". No, it was talking about people who heard the word and obeyed it, which included the command to be baptized. ONLY then were their souls added to them.

    Just as the Jews obeyed the command to be baptized (verse 41), so should we. If we don't, then we are not obeying Christ (Matthew 28:19,20), and that WILL cost you your soul. We are only saved if we obey Christ (Hebrews 5:9).

    Acts chapter 2 is a clear example of how a person who is dead in sin can become saved and join other brethren around the world, just like the brethren of Corinth. The Corinth brethren were baptized because Jesus Christ commanded it in the great commission, which you failed to address, so I'll post it again:

    Matthew 28:19,20

    19) "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

    20) teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.


    Jesus commanded His disciples to go out into world and baptize people and for those people to observe ALL things that Jesus commanded the disciples to do, which INCLUDED baptism. What did Paul go out and preach? THE GOSPEL. And when Paul obeyed Jesus and went out to Corinth "making disciples and baptizing them", those people who believed were baptized (or your telling me that Paul disobeyed Jesus's DIRECT order to do that very thing), and they were saved... because they heard the gospel and they obeyed it!

    So I ask you again, knowing that baptism is commanded by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, how can you say that baptism isn't necessary?? If we don't obey Jesus, then He is NOT the author of eternal salvation to that person, because Heberws 5:9 states:

    9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

    It clearly states that He is the author of salvation to who? All who obey Him. Where do you think that leaves the people that don't obey Him? I'll spell it out just so there's no confusion: HELL.

    Is baptism necessary for salvation? You bet it is. Obey the word!!
    Last edited by Kevin; September 9th, 2001 at 01:45 AM.
    Praise be to God!

  15. #30
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    Thumbs down Freak's Own Words Accuse Him

    Hope,

    Please dispense with doctrine (I mean this in a certain sense) and just be HONEST. Know something by its words and actions. (I realize in this case, we only have words).

    When Freak opened up this topic, he denounced my views of baptism as heretical on the following basis.

    1. Baptism is not mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15 (neither is Christ's blood by the way).

    THAT was his point. The original post had NOTHING to do with whether or not the baptism I believe in is unto "another" Christ.

    Just LOOK at the start of Freak's topic to find even a HINT of that. It won't be found.

    THEN I brought up Romans 6:4. He then SWITCHED (LIED, DECEIVED). He tried to put on the appearance of ALL THE WHILE attacking my belief that baptism is part of the gospel NOT by claiming 1 Cor 15 and its not mentioning baptism, BUT by saying my view is heretical because I believe in a baptism unto "another" Christ.

    That is just plain dishonesty.

    Now, one thing I see often in these kind of forums is the sinful practise of preferring a person's words BECAUSE of what that person believes.

    Such as:
    o2 has this weird non-Trinitarian belief. Thus, I will typically find him to be wrong - no matter what.

    Freak is Trinitarian and is a zealous defender of the truth (hooray!). Thus, I will typically defend him - no matter what.

    The truth is, the words we offer contain their own innate veracity. Regardless of what Freak believes and regardless of what I believe, the words often stand, just as they are.

    In this case, Freak is being a dishonest, deceiving LIAR.

    Also in this case, sadly, you appear to be in the category of defending Freak because you like how he believes and dislike how I believe.

    Freak's behavior, sometimes, is beneath the typical behavior of the heathens that post in this forum.

    Nice "ally," huh?

    o2

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