Separation of Church and State in schools

Griffin

New member
A school, besides being a large group of aquatic animals, is a place of learning, for educating youth, and for helping youth develop their opinions and ideas about serious issues and events that they will face in the world. It is at school where children will have their minds sculpted the ideas taught. It is for this reason that this issue is an important one, do we want to have a bias towards a certain religion, and why Christianity?

America’s forefathers, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, all work towards keeping Church and State separate. Surely you don’t need a history lesson on your own country from a Canadian about your forefathers? It is because of the founding principles that almost all cases taken to the Supreme Court involving separation of church and state in school have been won. Don’t mention the most recent one in California, as a campaigner for equal marital rights for males I’m still pissed about that.
"The [First] Amendment's purpose... was to create a complete and permanent separation of the spheres of religious activity and civil authority by comprehensively forbidding every form of public aid or support for religion." U.S. Supreme Court, Reynolds v. United States (1879) Furthermore, a 1992 decision "Lee v. Weisman" by the U.S. Supreme Court prohibited "prayer, benediction, or invocation at any graduation ceremonies" Lastly, a 1999 statement by the Education Secretary "...the U.S. Supreme Court in 1980 ruled that it is unconstitutional for a state to require posting of the Ten Commandments in public schools...�

A prime example of where Church and State overlap in religious piety is the Pledge of Allegiance. These outdated traditions should be done with, yet we are adding to them, the words “under god� were added in 1954 so there would be a distinction between the U.S. and the godless Soviets. The 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution requires the government to not give preference of one religion over another. The words “under god� do just that.

In Western civilization we pride ourselves of being a free and multicultural society. In a society this multicultural (and getting more and more diverse as I type) it is astonishing to only incorporate one religious idea. That leaves the option of incorporating all religions equally, or not supporting any. Some may even venture that we can see the results of only supporting one religion in schools by the attitudes of Americans towards other religions like Judaism or Islam. If you want to teach acceptance of religion instead of tension, schools are the right place to start.

Thanks for reading.
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Re: Separation of Church and State in schools

Posted in error. Z
 
Last edited:

Christine

New member
Re: Separation of Church and State in schools

Originally posted by Griffin

A school, besides being a large group of aquatic animals, is a place of learning, for educating youth, and for helping youth develop their opinions and ideas about serious issues and events that they will face in the world. It is at school where children will have their minds sculpted the ideas taught. It is for this reason that this issue is an important one, do we want to have a bias towards a certain religion, and why Christianity?
Right now, in America's public schools the religious bias is not Christianity. The schools do have a religous bias, that of secular humanism.

America’s forefathers, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, all work towards keeping Church and State separate.
Especially so the government wasn't endorsing any particular religion, such as Christianity, which was a problem in England and other European countries that many colonial Americans had emmigrated from.

It is because of the founding principles that almost all cases taken to the Supreme Court involving separation of church and state in school have been won. Don’t mention the most recent one in California, as a campaigner for equal marital rights for males I’m still pissed about that.
I'm unfamiliar with the California case you're referring to. Is it the case over the Pledge?
"The [First] Amendment's purpose... was to create a complete and permanent separation of the spheres of religious activity and civil authority by comprehensively forbidding every form of public aid or support for religion." U.S. Supreme Court, Reynolds v. United States (1879) Furthermore, a 1992 decision "Lee v. Weisman" by the U.S. Supreme Court prohibited "prayer, benediction, or invocation at any graduation ceremonies"
On prayers at graduation ceremonies, they may be unconstitutional if they are teacher lead or required, but if a student voluntarily says a prayer, he is excercising his right to free speech and can not be stopped.

Lastly, a 1999 statement by the Education Secretary "...the U.S. Supreme Court in 1980 ruled that it is unconstitutional for a state to require posting of the Ten Commandments in public schools...�
If the 10 commandments were displayed in schools, it would seem to be government support of them and what they stand for (either Christianity or Judism).

A prime example of where Church and State overlap in religious piety is the Pledge of Allegiance. These outdated traditions should be done with, yet we are adding to them, the words “under god� were added in 1954 so there would be a distinction between the U.S. and the godless Soviets. The 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution requires the government to not give preference of one religion over another. The words “under god� do just that.
As long as the pledge has "under God" it shouldn't be required for students to recite it in school. However if the phrase "under God" was removed I wouldn't have a problem with teachers requiring the pledge. As it is now it isn't to big a deal as the Pledge is seldom recited in school in the States anymore.

In Western civilization we pride ourselves of being a free and multicultural society. In a society this multicultural (and getting more and more diverse as I type) it is astonishing to only incorporate one religious idea. That leaves the option of incorporating all religions equally, or not supporting any. Some may even venture that we can see the results of only supporting one religion in schools by the attitudes of Americans towards other religions like Judaism or Islam. If you want to teach acceptance of religion instead of tension, schools are the right place to start.
I'd say don't promote any religion in public schools, not even the acceptance of other "diverse" views. If, as I and many Christians believe, there is only one true religion, then you can't teach acceptance of other religions without contradicting Christianity. You'd probably contradict some other faiths in the process as well.

Thanks for reading.
Thanks for posting. :)
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Originally posted by Christine

Zakath- this thread is for students in grades 12 and under.
:eek:

I did not look at the entire path of the thread. My apologies. I will remove my previous post.
 

billwald

New member
>The schools do have a religous bias, that of secular humanism.

You mean "philosophical bias?" If atheism is a religion then bald is a hair color.
 

Griffin

New member
Originally posted by billwald

>The schools do have a religous bias, that of secular humanism.

You mean "philosophical bias?" If atheism is a religion then bald is a hair color.

So you're calling secular humanism a relgiong, but atheism a philosophy?...:confused:

Yes, schools have a bias towards secular humanism (an outlook or philosophy that advocates human rather than religious values). Why is this a bad thing?

Atheism is a religion, just like existenialism is a philosophy, anarchy is a political theory, and shaving your head is a hair style.
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Originally posted by Griffin

So you're calling secular humanism a relgiong, but atheism a philosophy?...:confused: ...Atheism is a religion, just like existenialism is a philosophy, anarchy is a political theory, and shaving your head is a hair style.

Secular humanism has been determined to be a religion by various American courts.

Atheism is a philosophy, not a religion, since religions require belief in supernatural entities like deities while atheism does not. Along similar lines, Buddhism is not actually a religion since it has no deities, but a philosophy. One can be an atheist and a Buddhist.

The quote about atheism and hair color is based on the point that atheism is a belief lacking in in deities while baldness is a lacking of hair.
 
Top