Torture Christians!!!

Ayura · Jun 12, 2005

granite1010 said:
When I see a thread like this I think of the real heinous stuff in the Bible.

I mean, tit for tat, folks. Who here wants to listen to passages about donkey sex organs, burning women alive, cutting their hands off, slaughtering infants, gang rape, castration, and wholesale murder?

Anybody?

If you're gonna gun for the Koran at least be ready for somebody to make it an equal opportunity event...

There is no equal. I can reveal some highly disturbing things about the Bible, but I won't. You will not find these sorts of things in the Qu'ran, I assure you

Ayura · Jun 12, 2005

kmoney said:
I haven't read enough of the Koran to give you an informed answer. Obviously there is much violence in the world from Muslims, but they might just be extremists that aren't following true Islam. So, I don't know if I think it is a religion of peace.

Kevin

Who told you that Islam is a religion of peace? It is not. But neither is it a religion of violence. Islam is only between the single person and God. Nothing more. Through this, we acquire peace and that peace can transcend to those around you.

Crow · Jun 12, 2005

Ayura said:
There is no equal. I can reveal some highly disturbing things about the Bible, but I won't. You will not find these sorts of things in the Qu'ran, I assure you

Really?

Koran 47:4 When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take ransom from them, until War shall lay down her burdens.

fool · Jun 12, 2005

Ayura said:
There is no equal. I can reveal some highly disturbing things about the Bible, but I won't. You will not find these sorts of things in the Qu'ran, I assure you

please do

Ayura · Jun 12, 2005

Koran 47:4 When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take ransom from them, until War shall lay down her burdens.

This is the verse:

047.004
YUSUFALI: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.
PICKTHAL: Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.
SHAKIR: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.

Again, this is refering to enemies.

I quote the following:

O Prophet! say to those who are captives in your hands: 'If Allah findeth any good in your hearts, He will Give you something better than what has been taken from you, and He will Forgive you: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. But if they have treacherous designs against thee, (O Messenger!), they have already been in treason against Allah, and so hath He given (thee) power over them. And Allah is He who hath (Full) knowledge and wisdom. (The Noble Quran, 8:70-71)"

The following explanation of Noble Verses 8:70-71 was taken from the commentary of Sheikh (Minister) Abdullah Yusuf Ali's (may Allah Almighty rest his soul) English translation:

"This is a consolation to the prisoners of war. In spite of their previous hostility, Allah will forgive them in His mercy if there was any good in their hearts, and confer upon them a far higher gift than anything they have ever lost. This gift in its highest sense would be the blessing of Islam, but even in a material sense, there was great good fortune awaiting them, e.g., in the case of Al-Abbas (who was among the unbelievers and was taken as a prisoner of war).

Note how comprehensive is Allah's care. He encourages and strengthens the Muslims, at the same time condemning any baser motives that may have entered their minds. He consoles the prisoners of war and promises them better things if there is any good in them at all. And He offers comfort to those who have left their homes in His Cause, and knits them into closer fellowship with those who have helped them and sympathized with them.

If the kindness shown to them is abused by the prisoners of war when they are released, it is not a matter of discouragement to those who showed the kindness. Such persons have in their treachery shown already their treason to Allah, in that they took up arms against Allah's Prophet, and sought to blot out the pure worship of Allah. The punishment of defeat, which opened the eyes of some of their comrades, evidently did not open their eyes. But Allah knows all, and in His wisdom will order all things for the best. The Believers have done their duty in showing such clemency as they could in the circumstances of war. For them "Allah sufficeth" (Noble Verse 8:62)" [2].

Also, how should we treat prisoners of war (POW)? Let's see what the Qu'ran has to say about this:

"They perform (their) vows, and they fear a Day Whose evil flies far and wide. And they feed, for the love of Allah, the indigent, the orphan, and the captive -- (Saying), 'We feed you For the sake of Allah alone: No reward do we desire from you, nor thanks.' (The Noble Quran, 76:7-9)"

In these Noble Verses, we clearly see how Allah Almighty orders the Muslims to treat their captives with kindness and to not expect anything back in return. Muslims must do it for the love of Allah Almighty, hence they have to feed their captives in kindness and love.

kmoney · Jun 12, 2005

Ayura said:
Who told you that Islam is a religion of peace? It is not. But neither is it a religion of violence. Islam is only between the single person and God. Nothing more. Through this, we acquire peace and that peace can transcend to those around you.

Ayura,

Freak asked me if I denounced it as a religion of peace, so I told him I didn't know what I thought.

Kevin

Ayura · Jun 12, 2005

Then forgive me. Sorry.

kmoney · Jun 12, 2005

Ayura said:
Then forgive me. Sorry.

Don't sweat it...

Granite · Jun 12, 2005

Ayura said:
There is no equal. I can reveal some highly disturbing things about the Bible, but I won't. You will not find these sorts of things in the Qu'ran, I assure you

No offense but both books have plenty of passages in there that could be described as "disturbing." I'm just saying that it's unfair to start a thread going over the "horrors" of the Koran when Christians are the last people who should talk.

Freak · Jun 12, 2005

kmoney said:
I haven't read enough of the Koran to give you an informed answer. Obviously there is much violence in the world from Muslims, but they might just be extremists that aren't following true Islam. So, I don't know if I think it is a religion of peace.

Kevin

Islam has evangelized through military means, Christianity evangelizes via the spreading of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Ayura · Jun 12, 2005

Didn't Jesus say that he didn't come to bring peace, but to bring a sword? Didn't he say they one should sell there gourments to buy a sword?

The english word for sword, is blatently "Sword". This is only one word for the object. In arabic, there are 13 words for "Sword".

200 times is the single word "Sword" found in the Bible, yet non of the 13 words for sword are mentioned in the Qu'ran.

TheSearcher · Jun 12, 2005

Freak said:
Islam has evangelized through military means, Christianity evangelizes via the spreading of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

What were all of those crusades then? Fun time in the Holy Land? Sorry, but I doubt there were any sunny picnics and bunny rabits jumping around. Alot of blood on both sides was spilled. My point being, you didnt see Muslim armies marching into France.

Granite · Jun 12, 2005

Freak said:
Islam has evangelized through military means, Christianity evangelizes via the spreading of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Uh-huuuuuh. So Christianity's never used military might, not ONCE, to spread it message.

Holly · Jun 12, 2005

Freak said:
Fight and slay the pagans (that would be Christians who hate their false god) wherever you find them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war (Sura 9:5).

These verses actually have nothing to do with Christians or Jews, who are regarded by Muslims as fellow "People of the Book" and worshippers of the same God, the God of Abraham, and who have a position quite distinct from "pagans." The city of Mecca was a center of pagan worship in Mohammed's day, and the Muslims were severely persecuted, hence the vindicative language. If you take certain passages from our own Old Testament out of context, you can make the false case that we are commanded to torment and kill "other" groups, too.

Freak · Jun 12, 2005

Holly said:
These verses actually have nothing to do with Christians or Jews, who are regarded by Muslims as fellow "People of the Book" and worshippers of the same God, the God of Abraham, and who have a position quite distinct from "pagans.".

Sura 5:51 commands Muslims not to take Jews and Christians as friends.

Sura 9:29 commands Muslims to fight against Jews and Christians until they either submit to Allah or else agree to pay a special tax.

Lovejoy · Jun 12, 2005

granite1010 said:
Uh-huuuuuh. So Christianity's never used military might, not ONCE, to spread it message.

Not effectively, that is for sure. Coming to Christ by the sword rather than free will is not coming to Christ at all.

simply one · Jun 12, 2005

Lovejoy said:
Not effectively, that is for sure. Coming to Christ by the sword rather than free will is not coming to Christ at all.

Actually, Christianity was really made mainstream by military might. Without Emperor Theodosious of Rome MANDATING Christianity, and killing/terrorizing those who would not, Christianity would never have gotten off its feet, and you would not be able to go around, beating your own drum about how right you are. And, in fact, Christianity would nver have even been legalized and the persecution of Christians would not have stopped if Emperor Constantine (a pagan, for 99% of his life) had not had a dream in which he believed to hear from the Christian God, telling him that he could conquer all his enemies if her painted the symbol of Christ on their battle gear.

Most of the prophets of most modern religions had the right ideas which they were trying to spread (i.e. peace, humility, equality, etc...). These are values which everyone should live by, yes. But, because these prophets used religion as their meduim of teaching, the message was inevitably distorted by those who wrote down the sayings, political strife, and leaders of the religions' want for power.

So, please stop trying to demonize other religions, when, in fact, all religions have far more in common than in differences, and problems only arise when the believers of some religion begin to feel superior to others, simply because of the place of worship that they attend.

-----

peace.

post number 100! yes!

keypurr · Jun 13, 2005

Freak said:
Allah exists, exists as a demon disguising as a false god called Allah. Get it?

I visualize Saul (Paul) saying close to the same thing about Christ and his followers.

Granite · Jun 13, 2005

Lovejoy said:
Not effectively, that is for sure. Coming to Christ by the sword rather than free will is not coming to Christ at all.

:thumb:

Bingo!

allsmiles · Jun 13, 2005

Check out what happened in the 4th crusade. Good stuff (insert sarcasm). Also, check out the biblical stories of the Levite and his concubine, and Lot's "relationship" with his daughters. David and Bathsheba, Solomon and his pagan wives, etc.

Torture Christians!!!

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