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Thread: Sodomy vs. Shellfish

  1. #31
    TOL Subscriber lightbringer's Avatar
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    I knew Hitler would be brought up sooner or later...we almost made it to page three.

    Never ceases to amaze me.

    oops! page three already!
    Do not go gentile into that good night. D.Thomas

    Out, Out, Brief Candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, That struts and frets his hour upon the stage, And then is heard no more, It is a tale told by an idiot, Full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing. W.S.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Vinny View Post
    I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, and you may want to clarify after I ask the following question:

    Does this mean that we are morally obligated to observe the seventh-day Sabbath (Exodus 31:15)?
    Absolutely not. Observing the Sabbath was a ceremonial law given to the Jews who were under the Law. Working on the Sabbath is not immoral or evil, it was a law given for a different dispensation. In the age of grace, Gentiles are not bound by the Law and no amount of good works will save us, only faith. That being said, God's moral Law is unchanging and still requires righteous justice. Murder, kidnapping, adultery and other sexual sins (ie: homosexuality, bestiality, pedophilia, rape, ect.) are still deserving of death according to God.

    Does that clear things up a bit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberpod1 View Post
    Isn't it true that the God who serves a punishment of everlasting torture for disobedience in regard to a matter of taste must clearly be seen as an entity more evil than Hitler?
    That's sounds pretty accurate to me. But they really don't like it when you compare them or their god to Hitler.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    Vile affections stem from idolatry. Romans 1:20-28 KJV For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

    “Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts," "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections". This is as if to say, “Fine. You know who I am and yet, this is what you want. Then I’m turning you over to your ways. Have at it.”.

    Read Exodus 32! Long story short: Moses went up to the mountain to commune with God and was gone too long and the people spoke to Aaron and wanted him to “make us gods” to worship. They changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man (golden calf) and then what did they do on the morrow? They rose up to play. Sounds a lot like what we see above in Romans.

    Exodus 32:6 KJV And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

    Their hope is not in perfecting their flesh as if righteousness come by the law. Hmmm. What does that mean? Perhaps in your response to what I previously posed I can get a better understanding as to what you are saying. Here is what I asked you:

    As an ambassador for Christ, where is the good news (even for the “homo”) that sin is not their problem right now (2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV), but their UNBELIEF is? Just what must they (or anyone else for that matter) do to be saved?

    And yet at the end of your OP you left the homosexual with no hope and on their way to “eternal damnation” because of the works of the flesh. Do homosexuals who die today go to hell because of what they do?
    Still waiting for a reply, DX.

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    DXPose - are you for real? I'm curious, when did the bible start categorizing abominations to the Lord? If Leviticus is the Word of God, then we don't have the luxury to decide which is less abominable. So based on your logic, we can choose which sin is ok and which is not and if that is the case, you have no right to condemn anyone for their actions because a more enlightened person may decide that homosexuality is the lessor sin. Jess, people, throw away your childish toys and bigotry and do some reading.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjkky View Post
    DXPose - are you for real? I'm curious, when did the bible start categorizing abominations to the Lord? If Leviticus is the Word of God, then we don't have the luxury to decide which is less abominable. So based on your logic, we can choose which sin is ok and which is not and if that is the case, you have no right to condemn anyone for their actions because a more enlightened person may decide that homosexuality is the lessor sin. Jess, people, throw away your childish toys and bigotry and do some reading.
    Yes, but homosexuality is more "icky" than eating shellfish so it's all justified.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Yes, but homosexuality is more "icky" than eating shellfish so it's all justified.

    ROFLMAO! Way too funny!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DXPose View Post
    Eating shellfish is a rather harmless act with no moral implications, whereas history is replete with accounts of homosexuality as a deviant, destructive and anti-societal behavior resulting in the end of a culture and eternal damnation for those who practice it.
    By "history", do you mean the bible?

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    Homosexuality is very normal behavior. It has been studied and proven that over 1500 specials within the animal kingdom practice homosexuality. This frequent observation of homosexual behavior in animals has been seen as an argument for the acceptance of homosexuality in humans as natural, however, this conclusion is controversial due to opposition to the LGBT social movements and many experts in the field are reluctant to extrapolate from animals to humans. Some consider it also counters the 'peccatum contra naturam' ('sin against nature') after Thomas Aquinas. Whether this has logical or ethical implications is also a source of debate, with some arguing that it is illogical to use animal behavior to justify what is or is not moral. Morality is a human trait and has just as many arguments as to what or who defines morality. Morality is not exclusive to biblical teachings, contrary to Christian beliefs. The problem I see with Christian morality stems from idolatry of the Bible instead of the glorious gifts of God's love for ALL His children. Christians have made God into their image instead of us being made in His image.

    Regardless of these arguments, homosexuality is natural. It is only unnatural to those who lack understanding of one of God's most wonderful gifts to express one's love for another. I can't help but wonder if the reason Christians from the medieval period (Thomas Aquinas) and today are against it because if reproduction isn't possible, then the church can't grow which is essential for religious domination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjkky View Post
    Homosexuality is very normal behavior. It has been studied and proven that over 1500 specials within the animal kingdom practice homosexuality. This frequent observation of homosexual behavior in animals has been seen as an argument for the acceptance of homosexuality in humans as natural, however, this conclusion is controversial due to opposition to the LGBT social movements and many experts in the field are reluctant to extrapolate from animals to humans. Some consider it also counters the 'peccatum contra naturam' ('sin against nature') after Thomas Aquinas. Whether this has logical or ethical implications is also a source of debate, with some arguing that it is illogical to use animal behavior to justify what is or is not moral. Morality is a human trait and has just as many arguments as to what or who defines morality. Morality is not exclusive to biblical teachings, contrary to Christian beliefs. The problem I see with Christian morality stems from idolatry of the Bible instead of the glorious gifts of God's love for ALL His children. Christians have made God into their image instead of us being made in His image.

    Regardless of these arguments, homosexuality is natural. It is only unnatural to those who lack understanding of one of God's most wonderful gifts to express one's love for another. I can't help but wonder if the reason Christians from the medieval period (Thomas Aquinas) and today are against it because if reproduction isn't possible, then the church can't grow which is essential for religious domination.
    By your logic, murdering your own children is natural.
    Behavior: Animals That Kill Their Young

    Christians should always be against homosexual acts because God said those acts are an abomination.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    By your logic, murdering your own children is natural.
    Behavior: Animals That Kill Their Young

    Christians should always be against homosexual acts because God said those acts are an abomination.
    That means you'll never use the "homosexuality is unnatural" argument, right?
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    On the topic at hand.. This is my take on it.

    We need to read Leviticus 18 in context. No sensible person would question any of the other verses in this chapter, prohibitions against incest, beastiality and child sacrifice. So why do we question this one verse, verse 22? What makes this verse no longer apply, yet the others still do? There is no answer to that, as this whole chapter still applies to us today.

    There is a distinct difference between moral and ceremonial law. The ceremonial law no longer applies. The moral law clearly does. Also, because homosexuality is again mentioned in the New Testament, that is a clear ratification of the old testament texts regarding the issue.


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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    By your logic, murdering your own children is natural.
    Behavior: Animals That Kill Their Young

    Christians should always be against homosexual acts because God said those acts are an abomination.
    According to your logic, shrimp and lobster is an abomination and should be as grave a sin as your belief in homosexual immorality. Also according your logic, slavery is just, multiple wives, subordination of women, selling children to slavery are all justified as well. Let's not forget, man wrote the bible, not God. I find it interesting that there is no reason given why homeosexuality is immoral other than "God says so" by the homophobics. It is just a biased and ignorant stance by homophobic when in fact, it is just as much an expression of love for one another as heterosexuals share.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemeorhateme View Post
    On the topic at hand.. This is my take on it.

    We need to read Leviticus 18 in context. No sensible person would question any of the other verses in this chapter, prohibitions against incest, beastiality and child sacrifice. So why do we question this one verse, verse 22? What makes this verse no longer apply, yet the others still do? There is no answer to that, as this whole chapter still applies to us today.

    There is a distinct difference between moral and ceremonial law. The ceremonial law no longer applies. The moral law clearly does. Also, because homosexuality is again mentioned in the New Testament, that is a clear ratification of the old testament texts regarding the issue.
    So Deuteronomy 25:11 is okay by you?
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    http://www.gotquestions.org/God-hates-shrimp.html

    Does God hate shrimp?

    (have not read all of the thread)
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