ECT A warning to born-again believers who are sinning habitually

God's Truth

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Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.
James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
works

Rom 4:6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
Rom 4:7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered;
Rom 4:8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."
Right, they dodn’t have to do the purification/ceremonial works. That means they dodn’t have to be circumcised, adhere to a special diet, do a special bath, and sacrifice an animal.
 

God's Truth

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Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things so ever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law shows us that we are guilty before GOD and in need of His pure grace.

GOD purposed beforehand that they would have an earthly king.
Their timing was wrong and their rejection of the direct rule of GOD through the Judges and Prophets was wrong.

Gen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
Gen 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

Jacob/Israel prophesied that their King would come forth from the tribe of Judah.... not from Benjamin, as in the case of King Saul.
'The people' of Israel would be gathered unto that King which would proceed from Judah.

Gen 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

GOD instructed Israel thru Moses before they entered the promised land that they were to receive a King from among their brethren, whom the LORD would choose.

Deu 17:14 When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;
Deu 17:15 Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.

GOD made an irrevocable promise to King David concerning his throne and his dynasty of Kings.

2Sa 7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

Psa 89:3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
Psa 89:4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
Psa 89:29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
Psa 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
Psa 89:35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
Psa 89:36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.

Jer 33:20 Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;
Jer 33:21 Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.
Jer 33:22 As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.

Yes, Zedekiah, successor to Jeconiah upon whom GOD cursed the Davidic lineage. He's mentioned in the genealogy of Joseph, the Lord Jesus' stepfather.

At least you acknowledge that GOD's kingdom was the nation of Israel over which David's throne reigned.

Yes, upon the throne of David, the throne of the LORD, Christ's future glorious throne which He will take at His second coming to earth.... as promised.
Jesus is ruling now; when he comes again, it will be at the resurrection of the dead.

The last judgment will be in the clouds and the saved will meet Jesus there.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Then Jesus will hand over the kingdom to the Father.
There is no living on this earth as an earthly king.
Jesus hands it over to the Father after the last enemy is destroyed, so no sitting on an earthly throne.

1 Corinthians 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

God established it through His irrevocable covenant with King David.

Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob[Israel] for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

2Sa_3:10 To translate the kingdom from the house of Saul, and to set up the throne of David over Israel and over Judah, from Dan even to Beersheba.

Isaiah 16:5“And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.”

Amos 9:11“In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:”

David’s throne was a throne over Israel.

We see from the scriptures that the earthly throne of Israel was actually God's throne.

Jesus is the righteous one who is NOW SITTING on that throne.

Jesus is Ruler of everything, not just over an earthly Israel.
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

James is merely saying that true faith is evidenced by good works. He is not saying that we are saved by good works.
Who does he ask for you to show your good works to? GOD or James?

Right, they dodn’t have to do the purification/ceremonial works. That means they dodn’t have to be circumcised, adhere to a special diet, do a special bath, and sacrifice an animal.[/QUOTE]

Wrong, David had to do the purification/ceremonial works of the law and he certainly had to be circumcised... which he was.

Paul, in Ro 3,4 and 5 is plainly explaining that we are not saved by any meritorious works or our own but only by believing what GOD says and particularly in our case, putting our exclusive trust in Christ's finished work upon the cross for our justification/right standing before GOD.

When Paul refers to works, it is not meant to always be equated with the ceremonial/purification works of the law of Moses, but meant to refer to any meritorious work of ourselves to earn salvation.

Boasting is excluded by the principle/law of faith.
 

God's Truth

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James is merely saying that true faith is evidenced by good works. He is not saying that we are saved by good works.
Who does he ask for you to show your good works to? GOD or James?

Wrong, David had to do the purification/ceremonial works of the law and he certainly had to be circumcised... which he was.
Not when David sinned in the case with Uriah and Bathsheba. There was no sacrifice for adultery and murder.

Paul, in Ro 3,4 and 5 is plainly explaining that we are not saved by any meritorious works or our own but only by believing what GOD says and particularly in our case, putting our exclusive trust in Christ's finished work upon the cross for our justification/right standing before GOD.
Of course, Jesus saves us all on his own, but he tells us he chooses to save those who obey him.

Just look at all those teachings by Jesus telling us how to have a right heart so that he will live there; and none of it is about bringing animal sacrifices.
When Paul refers to works, it is not meant to always be equated with the ceremonial/purification works of the law of Moses, but meant to refer to any meritorious work of ourselves to earn salvation.
Obeying and sinning are both works. Surely Paul does not want us to have faith and continue to work at sinning instead of repent of sins.

Boasting is excluded by the principle/law of faith.

It is never ever shameful to obey God. It was only boastful for the Jews who had the ceremonial works of the law---that is the boasting that is no more.

Galatians 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.

Philippians 3:3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh--

Romans 2:23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?
 

God's Truth

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Romans 3:27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.


The works of the law is the purification/ceremonial works.

The works of the law is what separated the Jews from the Gentiles.

The works of the law that used to purify is done by faith now.
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Jesus is ruling now;

The Lord Jesus is presently seated at the right hand of the Father in the Father's throne, which throne has been ruling over all creation since the beginning of creation.
David's throne had it's beginning on earth, was established between GOD and King David as an irrevocable covenant. Scripture lays out the parameters of David's throne from Dan in the north to Beersheba in the south, the land promised as an inheritance to Abraham and his believing descendants forever. David never had a throne in heaven and GOD the Father's throne in heaven is never called David's throne in Scripture.
Yes, David's throne over Israel was called 'the throne of the LORD' but one cannot justifiably use that fact to call the Father's throne in heaven David's throne. Scripture defines David's throne as a throne on this earth with it's seat in earthly Jerusalem/Zion. What sophistry to use that argument to say that David's throne is now in heaven. Balonney-cakes! What a twisting of Holy Scripture!

when he comes again, it will be at the resurrection of the dead.

Scripture is a progressive revelation.
According to the mystery revealed by the ascended Christ to the Apostle Paul, Christ's next appearing will be to resurrect the saints of the BOC.
This was not known previously, but only revealed to and thru Paul.

The last judgment will be in the clouds and the saved will meet Jesus there.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

From the 'catching away[rapture] of the Saints in the BOC' to the White Throne [final] Judgement is at least a thousand years.

Then Jesus will hand over the kingdom to the Father.

There are many events to occur, according to Scripture, until that happens. You see prophecy all squeezed up together like seeing telephone poles apparently touching as one looks down the highway.


There is no living on this earth as an earthly king.


That is a blatant denial of sacred Scripture!


This:

so no sitting on an earthly throne.

doesn't follow logically from this:

Jesus hands it over to the Father after the last enemy is destroyed,


1 Corinthians 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.


Isaiah 16:5“And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.”

Amos 9:11“In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:”

Those scriptures are in harmony with all the other OT prophecies which predict the restoration of the twelve tribes back to the land promised and the restoration of the Davidic dynasty to be fulfilled as stated by the word of the LORD in David's greater Son, the promised Messiah of Israel.

This:

Jesus is the righteous one who is NOW SITTING on that throne.

does not follow logically from this:

David’s throne was a throne over Israel.

We see from the scriptures that the earthly throne of Israel was actually God's throne.

Jesus is the righteous one who is NOW SITTING on that throne.

Scripture declares that Christ is now sitting at the right hand of the Father in the Father's throne in heaven, expecting 'til His enemies become His footstool. Ps 110 addresses this. Christ returns to earth to destroy His enemies. His people[Israel} shall be willing in that day.

Jesus is Ruler of everything,

Of course He is.

not just over an earthly Israel.

Who is presently ruling over earthly Israel? Certainly not Christ.
But according to Scripture.... He will!

Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.




Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.


He takes His glorious throne, the throne of David, at His second coming to earth:

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:



Stop calling GOD a liar!
 

God's Truth

New member
The Lord Jesus is presently seated at the right hand of the Father in the Father's throne, which throne has been ruling over all creation since the beginning of creation.
David's throne had it's beginning on earth, was established between GOD and King David as an irrevocable covenant. Scripture lays out the parameters of David's throne from Dan in the north to Beersheba in the south, the land promised as an inheritance to Abraham and his believing descendants forever. David never had a throne in heaven and GOD the Father's throne in heaven is never called David's throne in Scripture.
Yes, David's throne over Israel was called 'the throne of the LORD' but one cannot justifiably use that fact to call the Father's throne in heaven David's throne. Scripture defines David's throne as a throne on this earth with it's seat in earthly Jerusalem/Zion. What sophistry to use that argument to say that David's throne is now in heaven. Balonney-cakes! What a twisting of Holy Scripture!

Scripture is a progressive revelation.
According to the mystery revealed by the ascended Christ to the Apostle Paul, Christ's next appearing will be to resurrect the saints of the BOC.
This was not known previously, but only revealed to and thru Paul.



From the 'catching away[rapture] of the Saints in the BOC' to the White Throne [final] Judgement is at least a thousand years.



There are many events to occur, according to Scripture, until that happens. You see prophecy all squeezed up together like seeing telephone poles apparently touching as one looks down the highway.


That is a blatant denial of sacred Scripture!


This:


doesn't follow logically from this:


Those scriptures are in harmony with all the other OT prophecies which predict the restoration of the twelve tribes back to the land promised and the restoration of the Davidic dynasty to be fulfilled as stated by the word of the LORD in David's greater Son, the promised Messiah of Israel.

This:


does not follow logically from this:


Scripture declares that Christ is now sitting at the right hand of the Father in the Father's throne in heaven, expecting 'til His enemies become His footstool. Ps 110 addresses this. Christ returns to earth to destroy His enemies. His people[Israel} shall be willing in that day.


Of course He is.


Who is presently ruling over earthly Israel? Certainly not Christ.
But according to Scripture.... He will!

Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.



Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.


He takes His glorious throne, the throne of David, at His second coming to earth:

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:



Stop calling GOD a liar!

Thanks for explaining your beliefs.
 

ZacharyB

Active member
Christ is my righteousness, my completion, my sufficiency and my perfection.
This is all very exciting indeed ...
but what do you do with the dozen NT verses, which say:
Those who "practice righteousness", "work righteousness", etc. ARE righteous.
Just what do we do with these verses ... ignore them or reject them?
Please advise, because I don't know which one I should do ... Thanks!
 

ZacharyB

Active member
Abraham was considered righteous before man for what he did
Abram was made righteous by faith
God considers that:
True saving belief and true saving faith results in
true saving obedience, which includes true saving works.

Remember James who kept saying that faith without works is dead faith.

And let's not forget that Jesus said 4 times in John 14:
"Those who love Me will obey My commandments."
Is anyone welcome in heaven who doesn't love Jesus?
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
God considers that:
True saving belief and true saving faith results in
true saving obedience, which includes true saving works.

Remember James who kept saying that faith without works is dead faith.
And don't forget that Jesus said, "Those who love Me will obey My commandments."

You NEED to learn how to 'Rightly Divide' the written word of God. See WHO James was speaking to. If one doesn't 'Rightly Divide' the word of God, they will be weighed down with confusion and unintended contradiction.
 

ZacharyB

Active member
True believers won't sin habitually.
Okay, great, sounds reasonable and logical.
So, the churches are full of people who are nonbelievers!

NO! ... many BACs have been deceived by churches which are FAST ASLEEP.
The pastors of these churches have failed in their duty to teach the sheep properly.

BACs who are habitual unrepentant sinners will NOT enter heaven!
Unless they manage to sincerely repent BEFORE they die.
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
Okay, great, sounds reasonable and logical.
So, the churches are full of people who are nonbelievers!

NO! ... many BACs have been deceived by churches which are FAST ASLEEP.
The pastors of these churches have failed in their duty to teach the sheep properly.

BACs who are habitual unrepentant sinners will NOT enter heaven!
Unless they manage to sincerely repent BEFORE they die.
All denominational or organizational churches follow their own idea of gospel and Jesus' teachings.

It is that clear and simple.

His true followers ought to warn the churches about this.
 
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