User Tag List

Page 16 of 17 FirstFirst ... 61314151617 LastLast
Results 226 to 240 of 255

Thread: Display.exe: Posted to document the date of my invention

  1. #226
    Over 1000 post club csuguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,194
    Thanks
    121
    Thanked 177 Times in 138 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    31965
    I will now use Bob's idea to prove that man's creativity is INFINITE rather than finite.

    First off, let us look at what his program actually does. It constructs a rectangular area of pixels, starting with all pixels at a value of zero. It then proceeds to alternate through all possible pixel combinations for that fixed area. By doing so, he is able to produce an image of everything that would fit onto that rectangular area. His program is currently only operating with black and white, but that is simple to overcome so let us ignore that limitation.

    Now, Bob argues that this program will eventually produce anything that man's creativity can produce. It will eventually produce any book, any program, and (if we allow the addition of color) even any 2D work of art. His argument relies upon the idea that his program's output is not limited to the present image - but rather all images that it produces. He can thus go through and combine select images to form a whole idea.

    This is a key assumption of Bob, for without the ability to combine the outputs produced by Display.exe - he would be extremely limited by what he could represent. For, if he limited himself to any given size canvas - I could think of an image that requires one more column of pixels and or rows. He could say his canvas is an infinite size - but that would defeat his goal: to demonstrate the finiteness of man's creativity. Therefore he limits the canvas size and combines the resulting images.

    However, he does not take into account the fact that the manner in which we connect ideas is, in fact, a form of creativity. And thus I will demonstrate that man's creativity is infinite through this very oversight.

    First, I will provide a simpler program for you all. I won't provide the code here (though I can if someone really wants it) but I will rather describe it in simple terms. Let us assume there is a program whos only goal is to alternate the color of a single pixel through all colors.

    Now, using Bob's earlier assumption - I can produce anything that his program produces by freely combining the results of my one pixel program. However, what limits the number of connections I can make? Nothing - I can keep linking each color to itself infinitely to produce an infinite series of new images.

    Thus Bob inadvertently provides proof of the infinite nature of man's creativity. Thank you Bob
    Last edited by csuguy; December 1st, 2012 at 04:06 PM.
    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

  2. #227
    Over 3000 post club noguru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Florida (a town that once catered to wealthy horse owners)
    Posts
    3,236
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    17979
    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    I see what the program does now. It just takes a document of some fixed size and it systematically goes through and alternates every single pixel one at a time, until it has exhausted all pixel combinations. By doing so you iterate through every single possible image that could fit onto that area - meaning book pages, sheet music, source code, etc.

    An interesting little program but I don't think it demonstrates the finiteness of man's creativity. All it really demonstrates is the finiteness of how many different images can be produced over a given area with a specific resolution. And it seems to be black and white only at that - so it can't reproduce works of art, which are a major area of human creativity. Granted, it would not be terribly difficult to rewrite the program so that it alternates through all color combinations as well.
    I did see that. But I am still not sure he is accurate in his claims that it can reconstruct the source code of a program strictly based on the compiled machine instructions. For it to do that it would also have to referrence every compiler (cobol, rpg, assembly, basic...) known to man. Not sure that would be something worthwhile anyways. Though I have used utilities that can take a compiled object and produce the source code from which they were compiled. They are not exact in their production. They often make assumptions based on programming standards, and there are often many ways to program the same exact function for obvious
    Militant Moderate

  3. #228
    Over 1000 post club csuguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,194
    Thanks
    121
    Thanked 177 Times in 138 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    31965
    Quote Originally Posted by noguru View Post
    I did see that. But I am still not sure he is accurate in his claims that it can reconstruct the source code of a program strictly based on the compiled machine instructions. For it to do that it would also have to referrence every compiler (cobol, rpg, assembly, basic...) known to man. Not sure that would be something worthwhile anyways. Though I have used utilities that can take a compiled object and produce the source code from which they were compiled. They are not exact in their production. They often make assumptions based on programming standards, and there are often many ways to program the same exact function for obvious
    His program doesn't take a program name as an argument. All it does is produce pictures. He argues that by iterating through all possible images for a given area and resolution it will also iterate through the source code for any given program. This is not false but it relies upon the assumption that he can combine the various images of his program. For you would be hard pressed to fit a program's source code onto a single page. See my previous post where I tackle Bob's argument and use his assumption to show that man's creativity is infinite rather than finite.
    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

  4. #229
    Over 3000 post club noguru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Florida (a town that once catered to wealthy horse owners)
    Posts
    3,236
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    17979
    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    His program doesn't take a program name as an argument. All it does is produce pictures. He argues that by iterating through all possible images for a given area and resolution it will also iterate through the source code for any given program.
    Then that is certainly not reconstructing the source code of a compiled object into whatever language the original program was.

    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    This is not false but it relies upon the assumption that he can combine the various images of his program. For you would be hard pressed to fit a program's source code onto a single page. See my previous post where I tackle Bob's argument and use his assumption to show that man's creativity is infinite rather than finite.
    I personally have worked on programs that are over 6,000 lines long (200 pages at 30 lines per page). Granted that was in the heyday of legacy programming and prior to object oriented programming standards. In one project I reduced the lines of code from about 8k to about 2k and added more functionality to the program in the process. This use to be a major issue in MIS because one could not just increase the horsepower of a machine when necessary back then.
    Militant Moderate

  5. #230
    Over 1000 post club csuguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,194
    Thanks
    121
    Thanked 177 Times in 138 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    31965
    Quote Originally Posted by noguru View Post
    Then that is certainly not reconstructing the source code of a compiled object into whatever language the original program was.
    Yes - his claims are highly exaggerated.

    I personally have worked on programs that are over 6,000 lines long (200 pages at 30 lines per page). Granted that was in the heyday of legacy programming and prior to object oriented programming standards. In one project I reduced the lines of code from about 8k to about 2k and added more functionality to the program in the process. This use to be a major issue in MIS because one could not just increase the horsepower of a machine when necessary back then.
    I currently work as a Software Programmer - trust me programs have not gotten any smaller. To the contrary - 200 pages would be nothing compared to the software I currently work with.
    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

  6. #231
    Over 3000 post club noguru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Florida (a town that once catered to wealthy horse owners)
    Posts
    3,236
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    17979
    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    Yes - his claims are highly exaggerated.



    I currently work as a Software Programmer - trust me programs have not gotten any smaller. To the contrary - 200 pages would be nothing compared to the software I currently work with.
    I was a programmer/analyst for 16 years. I worked on programs written in COBOL, RPG3, RPG4, RPGILE, JCL, CLP, Basic, Dbase, Foxpro...Most of my work was surrounding canned business applications software packages (GL, AP, AR, MRP, Wholesale Distribution...) as well as interface programs between various platforms. Though I did do work at 2 software houses for about 5 years of that time.
    Militant Moderate

  7. #232
    TOL Legend Granite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Live free or die.
    Posts
    11,960
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts

    Blog Entries
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    519640
    I can't believe any of you guys ever took this seriously.
    If wealth was the inevitable result of hard work and enterprise, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire.
    --George Monbiot




    Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
    --Homer J. Simpson

  8. #233
    Toxic Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Taipei, Taiwan
    Posts
    18,590
    Thanks
    468
    Thanked 12,247 Times in 8,738 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147846


    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

  9. #234
    Over 1000 post club csuguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,194
    Thanks
    121
    Thanked 177 Times in 138 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    31965
    Quote Originally Posted by Granite View Post
    I can't believe any of you guys ever took this seriously.
    Only the followers of Bob took it seriously. Although I did find the use of programming to make a theological point interesting.
    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

  10. #235
    TOL Legend Granite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Live free or die.
    Posts
    11,960
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts

    Blog Entries
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    519640
    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    Only the followers of Bob took it seriously. Although I did find the use of programming to make a theological point interesting.
    I guess at that point I rest my case.

    P.S. This pastor worship you see often in these bizarre little places like DBC reminds me of the Thurber short "The Owl Who Was God." Look it up, seriously. Isn't a lengthy read.
    If wealth was the inevitable result of hard work and enterprise, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire.
    --George Monbiot




    Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
    --Homer J. Simpson

  11. #236
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    970
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    I will now use Bob's idea to prove that man's creativity is INFINITE rather than finite.
    Diagonalization ftw

    Quote Originally Posted by noguru View Post
    I did see that. But I am still not sure he is accurate in his claims that it can reconstruct the source code of a program strictly based on the compiled machine instructions. For it to do that it would also have to referrence every compiler (cobol, rpg, assembly, basic...) known to man. Not sure that would be something worthwhile anyways. Though I have used utilities that can take a compiled object and produce the source code from which they were compiled. They are not exact in their production. They often make assumptions based on programming standards, and there are often many ways to program the same exact function for obvious
    It's just a gimmick, a silly attention-grabber. The program takes no input, it just spews pixel combinations until all have been accounted for.

    Apparently a pixel permutation on a 1600x1200 display with 24-bit color would result in 16,777,216 ^ 1,920,000 images, which is a number with around 16 million digits. Then once you have these [16 million digit number] images, the representation and storage of which would be perfectly impossible, you could sort through them and try to identify meaningful images, at which point you could only identify things you already know, hence no new knowledge. Like I said: a dramatic gimmick based on an unoriginal pixel permutation. When Bob inevitably adds the "video function" these results will increase exponentially.
    Last edited by zippy2006; December 1st, 2012 at 08:41 PM.

  12. #237
    Toxic Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Taipei, Taiwan
    Posts
    18,590
    Thanks
    468
    Thanked 12,247 Times in 8,738 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147846
    The program can do what it was claimed it could do.

    Who thinks they won the bet?
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

  13. #238
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    16,833
    Thanks
    649
    Thanked 9,967 Times in 6,976 Posts

    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147811
    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    Only the followers of Bob took it seriously.
    So you are a follower of Bob? You and noguru?

    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    I currently work as a Software Programmer - trust me programs have not gotten any smaller. To the contrary - 200 pages would be nothing compared to the software I currently work with.
    Quote Originally Posted by noguru View Post
    I personally have worked on programs that are over 6,000 lines long (200 pages at 30 lines per page). Granted that was in the heyday of legacy programming and prior to object oriented programming standards. In one project I reduced the lines of code from about 8k to about 2k and added more functionality to the program in the process. This use to be a major issue in MIS because one could not just increase the horsepower of a machine when necessary back then.
    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    I see what the program does now. It just takes a document of some fixed size and it systematically goes through and alternates every single pixel one at a time, until it has exhausted all pixel combinations. By doing so you iterate through every single possible image that could fit onto that area - meaning book pages, sheet music, source code, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by noguru View Post
    I was a programmer/analyst for 16 years. I worked on programs written in COBOL, RPG3, RPG4, RPGILE, JCL, CLP, Basic, Dbase, Foxpro...Most of my work was surrounding canned business applications software packages (GL, AP, AR, MRP, Wholesale Distribution...) as well as interface programs between various platforms. Though I did do work at 2 software houses for about 5 years of that time.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

  14. #239
    Over 1000 post club csuguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,194
    Thanks
    121
    Thanked 177 Times in 138 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    31965
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    So you are a follower of Bob? You and noguru?
    No I'm not a follower of Bob - and I never once took his claim seriously. I did enjoy the use of software to make a theological point though - that's new.
    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

  15. #240
    Over 1000 post club csuguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,194
    Thanks
    121
    Thanked 177 Times in 138 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    31965
    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    The program can do what it was claimed it could do.

    Who thinks they won the bet?
    Actually, the program fails to accomplish its only real purpose: demonstrate the finiteness of man's creativity. (Feature #4 in the OP). Also, being in black and white only, it fails Feature #2 - displaying the pages from any and every book.
    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us