ECT Roman Catholic Doctrines

DAN P

Well-known member
He can receive salvation, by the grace of God.

You seem to ignore all the evidence that is mounted against you.

Right. So, believing God would thus lead to believing and obeying that which was taught by Jesus and the Apostles. Jesus and the Apostles taught that we are to be baptized. Therefore, belief in God will lead to obedience to the command to be baptized.

But, if you don't believe that you need to be baptized, then you don't believe that which the Apostles taught. And remember, "Who ever hears you, hears me." So, denying a teaching and a call to obedience by the Apostles, and Christ, is denial of that which God has ordained.


Hi and if you believe Acts 2:38 , is that WATER and I do not see that Greek word for WATER / HUDOR and why is in verse 38 " will receive " the gift of the Holy Spirit in the FUTURE TENSE ??

dan p
 

jsanford108

New member
Hi and if you believe Acts 2:38 , is that WATER and I do not see that Greek word for WATER / HUDOR and why is in verse 38 " will receive " the gift of the Holy Spirit in the FUTURE TENSE ??

dan p

An excellent point, Dan.

The gift of the Holy Spirit comes after baptism, as paralleled in Christ's own baptism. This concurs with the Catholic doctrine of baptism. (Other denominations have this same doctrine; Catholicism is just the oldest)

As for the Greek appearance of water in Acts, it is quite unnecessary; as everyone knew that baptism was done with water, as they would have heard of John the Baptist and Christ's actions.

When I say "baptism," you know that I mean water baptism. Likewise, the authors would have known the same inference would be correctly made.

Excellent points, Dan.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 

God's Truth

New member
Again, have you ever listened to a Reformed person defend infant baptism? You may find it interesting. R.C. Sproul is a great example. I do not agree with him, but his arguments certainly are Biblical.

I was raised Catholic and was one into my twenties. I know the argument for baptism. I know the protestants reasoning for it too. It is not biblical.
 

tdhiggins

New member
I was raised Catholic and was one into my twenties. I know the argument for baptism. I know the protestants reasoning for it too. It is not biblical.

You may not agree with them, but I would caution against saying it is unbiblical when taught rightly. I would readily worship with a congregation of Reformed Presbyterians if there were no Reformed Baptist churches available. It is a secondary point of disagreement so long as baptism does not become more than a sign.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
You may not agree with them, but I would caution against saying it is unbiblical when taught rightly. I would readily worship with a congregation of Reformed Presbyterians if there were no Reformed Baptist churches available. It is a secondary point of disagreement so long as baptism does not become more than a sign.

The Calvinists fail to realize that today there is but "one baptism" (Eph.4:5) and that baptism is the one performed by the Holy Spirit (1 Cor.15:16).

Infant baptism and baptismal regeneration are both a denial of the truth found in the Bible!
 

jsanford108

New member
You may not agree with them, but I would caution against saying it is unbiblical when taught rightly. I would readily worship with a congregation of Reformed Presbyterians if there were no Reformed Baptist churches available. It is a secondary point of disagreement so long as baptism does not become more than a sign.

Tdhiggins,
Would you posit that baptism is no more than a sign, symbolic in nature alone?
 

God's Truth

New member
You may not agree with them, but I would caution against saying it is unbiblical when taught rightly. I would readily worship with a congregation of Reformed Presbyterians if there were no Reformed Baptist churches available. It is a secondary point of disagreement so long as baptism does not become more than a sign.

How do you ever get that water baptism on an infant is a sign?

It is a sign that someone is being raised in falseness.
 

God's Truth

New member
The Calvinists fail to realize that today there is but "one baptism" (Eph.4:5) and that baptism is the one performed by the Holy Spirit (1 Cor.15:16).

Infant baptism and baptismal regeneration are both a denial of the truth found in the Bible!

Jesus tells us to get water baptized. You can baptize yourself if you have to. It is a physical and verbal promise to God that you will die to the sins of the world and live to please Jesus.
 

God's Truth

New member
So you actually think that the "one baptism" is water baptism and not the baptism performed by the Holy Spirit (1 Cor.12:13)?

If you are right then how are people being baptized into the Body of Christ today?

No, the 'one baptism' is not the water baptism. However, we are still to get water baptized, just as we are to abstain from adultery and other sins, and just as we are to forgive those who sins against us.
 

jsanford108

New member
No?

Do you actually think that the "one baptism" is water baptism and not the baptism performed by the Holy Spirit of 1 Corinthians 12:13?

Is that what those in the church at Rome told you?

Notice that the Scripture you provided does not say "one baptism," but "one Spirit?"

Also, why was John the Baptist baptizing?
 

God's Truth

New member
Where is your biblical evidence of this?

Infant baptism is not biblical

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

An infant cannot repent. Many denominations perform infant baptisms. The way to salvation changes by infant baptism, it is not biblical. Catholics perform infant baptisms; they preach this falseness, which is a damaging blow to those needing the truth, those who want Jesus to save them.

Many Catholics try to use Matthew 19:13-14 to support their false doctrine of infant baptism.

13 Then little children were brought to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked those who brought them.
14 Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” 15When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there.

If the disciples were baptizing infants, as the Catholics claim, why do you think the disciples rebuked the people who brought the little children?
And, why did Jesus place his hands on them but not have his disciples baptize them?
The kingdom of heaven belongs to little children such as the ones brought to him.

Matthew 19:14 Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” 15When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there.

Matthew 18:3 And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

John 9:41 Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

You see, infant baptism is not biblical. In fact, infant baptism goes against the Word of God.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Notice that the Scripture you provided does not say "one baptism," but "one Spirit?"

Here is the verse which says "one baptism":

"One Lord, one faith, one baptism" (Eph.4:5).​

The "one baptism" is the one spoken of at 1 Corinthians 12:13. So if you think that water baptism is the "one baptism" then you must think that the Holy Spirit is no longer baptizing believers into the Body of Christ.

Is that what you believe?

Also, why was John the Baptist baptizing?

To prepare the people to serve the Lord Jesus:

"In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight" (Mt.3:1-3).​

It was necessary for the people to have a change of mind in regard to their sinful life style in order "make ready a people prepared for the Lord" so that they "might serve Him...in holiness and righteousness" (Lk.1:17,74-75).

In fact, before anyone could be baptized with water they had to first believe, as witnessed by what is said here:

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" (Acts 8:36-37).​

Before the eunuch was baptized with water he was already "born of God" because he believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God..For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1,4-5).​

There can be no doubt that the eunuch received eternal life and was "born of God" before he was baptized with water so we can know that being baptized with water does not contribute in any way to anyone being saved.

It is obvious that since the rite of water baptism was only for those who believed then infants were not to be water baptism.
 
Top