User Tag List

Page 4 of 19 FirstFirst 123456714 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 272

Thread: The Eternal Purpose of creation !

  1. #46
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    16,976
    Thanks
    244
    Thanked 878 Times in 842 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    48808
    black:

    I think I'm finally beginning to comprehend what you're saying. God created everything that exists for His own purpose and glory, including what we think of as evil. But because God, who is perfect And holy, is working out His will in all of what He created and perfectly controls all of what He created, it's not really evil at all because it's God's purpose being fulfilled.
    Gods Eternal Purpose includes evil..

    Therefore, everything that is done by anyone doing it is really fulfilling God's will because it is impossible for anyone or anything to act independently of God. Everything that everybody does and can imagine to do in obedience to the will of God.
    Correct..

    So if I think someone may be doing evil, they're not really because they are acting out the will of a sovereign God.
    Yes they may be doing evil, but its still out of the will of God..If a child is molested, a women brutally raped and murdered, that was evil and wicked, but nevertheless it was Gods Sovereign will that caused it..

    They really must be doing the will of God because nobody can act outside of the will of God; it's totally impossible to go against the will of God. Even Satan himself cannot act outside the will of God. So in the garden, when Adam was fulfilling the will of God by eating off of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he wasn't doing anything wrong; he actually was doing the will of his father(Luke 3:38).
    All this is true except when Adam ate of the fruit, that was morally wrong, but He still was doing the Sovereign will of God, it was Gods Sovereign will that caused it..

    Also, when Jesus, the second Adam, was nailed to the cross to fulfill the purpose and plan of His father, the soldiers, scribes, pharisees, and the rest creation were also doing the will their father.
    Absolutely..but God was not a Father to all of them..But a God to all of them..

    .
    God must have been their father because they were doing His will.
    Wrong assumption, all creatures carry out Gods Sovereign will without God being their Father.. The devil in the book of Job carried out Gods Sovereign will concerning Job, but that does not make Satan a child of God, or that God is his Father..

    Since God is not evil,
    Correct..

    and nothing he does is evil,
    Correct..
    and everything that ever happens is really God doing it by means of His creation, there can be no evil at all. It is all "very good
    The evil that the Sovereign will of God causes others to do, is very Good according to His Eternal Purpose..

    ps 76:10

    Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.

    All the sins that men can commit will end up to Gods Praise, and all other sins that cant, He will not allow them to come into existence..
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  2. #47
    Rookie
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    46
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by PlastikBuddha View Post
    To display the eternal idiocy of the lobotomized demiurge you are blasphemous enough to call "God"?
    The Christian faith does not have a demiurge. Demiurges are for false gods. You have not paid attention if you believe Christianity believes in a demiurge in any way.

  3. #48
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    16,976
    Thanks
    244
    Thanked 878 Times in 842 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    48808

    The Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus !

    Eph 3:11

    11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    2 Tim 1:9

    9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

    Col 1:16-17

    16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


    The World, the Ages, all Things were created for a redemptive purpose, thats to say that the world was made under the umbrella of the everlasting covenant, Christ having already been slain [ in purpose] and shedding His blood..

    All things worked out in the garden as to manifest the redemptive purpose of Jesus Christ..everything that occurred, the temptation by the serpent, the eating of the fruit by eve and Adam, the proclamation of the coming seed of the women, for all this was the very purpose for which the world was created.. The world was created under the eternal redemptive blessings of the blood of Christ, and all at the beginning makes manifest why..
    Last edited by beloved57; February 17th, 2012 at 07:55 AM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  4. #49
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    16,976
    Thanks
    244
    Thanked 878 Times in 842 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    48808

    Was it God's will for Adam to Sin ?

    Was it Gods will and intention for Adam to bring sin into the world : For Rom 5:12 reads:

    12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    Yes indeed it was God's will for Adam to sin. For the purpose of creation of te world was all for Christ..

    Col 1:16

    16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    Eph 3:9-11

    9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

    10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

    11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    For Adam was made for a redemptive purpose; so how could adam fulfill Gods purpose without plunging all of His descendants into sin ?

    I have yet been able to find a scripture that says all things were created for adam, but we do find a Scripture that states emphatically, that all things were created for Christ or unto Christ.

    Now Christ eternal purpose was redemptive and involved the calling of the gentiles Eph 3:11, but lets pay close to the two words eternal purpose in vs 11

    11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    Eternal purpose is literally, the Eternal plan or compact that God made in eternity past, within the purpose of the everlasting covenant.

    Now many say at this juncture that they believe in the eternal purpose of Christ, but I am afraid it is merely lip service to the truth of Gods eternal purpose in Christ, because the very same ones will turn right around and deny that God wanted adam to sin. They say that God would have preferred not that adam sinned, but because he did sin, God foresaw it, so then God purposed Christ as a sort of back up plan ! But what kinda nonsense is that ? Thats actually contradicting and overturning the clear scripture teaching that that the Eternal Purpose was centered in Jesus Christ or its saying that Jesus Christ was secondary to Gods purpose of adam, which thinking is actually giving the purpose of adam the preeminence over the purpose of Christ, which undermines this:
    Col 1:18

    18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    Now certainly, if Jesus Christ was a back up plan for the failure of adam, then adam had the preeminence over Christ in Gods First Purpose..

    This thinking is a total repudiation of the truth that all things [ Including adam] were created by and for Jesus Christ.
    Last edited by beloved57; November 27th, 2013 at 09:33 AM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  5. #50
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    16,976
    Thanks
    244
    Thanked 878 Times in 842 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    48808

    Was it Gods will for Adam to Sin ? cont

    Now certainly, if Jesus Christ was a back up plan for the failure of Adam, then Adam had the preeminence over Christ in Gods First Purpose..

    This thinking is a total repudiation of the truth that all things [ Including Adam] were created by and for Jesus Christ..

    This carnal reasoning that puts Jesus Christ as a back plan does not really believe what the scripture clearly teaches, that all things are for Christ, this reasoning however believes that initially all things were for Adam, hence the creature is being exalted over the creator.. Rom 1:25

    25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    For Jesus Christ is clearly identified as the Creator Col 1:16

    16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    Jn 1:3

    3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    So no matter what one may claim by their mouth to believe, if they don't understand that sin/evil being Gods perfect holy will for this world, and that Adam was created very good in order to bring that purpose by his disobedience, then they do not understand the preeminence of Jesus Christ in all things over adam, and have elevated the creature over the creator, which is nothing short of Idolatry !

    Now, was it Gods perfect Holy will for Adam to sin and bring evil into the world in the beginning ? Again the answer is yes, an emphatic yes, no question about it.

    Now there is a principle that is very important here that is often lost sight of, found in Gen 50:20

    But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

    You see here, sin and evil is given its defining purpose and definition, men and devil mean it for evil, but God meant evil and sin for Good, Oh yes, Satan's evil deceiving of the first parents of the election, was meant for evil, but God meant it for Good, in other words, Satan was just doing what Gods eternal purpose in Jesus Christ predetermined for him to do, to bring to pass the salvation purpose of Jesus Christ..

    So that it will bring to pass what we have recorded here in Rev 5:6-14


    6And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

    7And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

    8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

    9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

    10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

    11And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

    12Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

    13And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
    14And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

    And Rev 7:10-12

    10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.


    11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
    12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

    So you who believe it was not Gods will for Adam to sin and bring evil into this world, but that God would have rathered for Adam not to had sin, but that he would have lived perfectly forever and ever without sin, then you are saying that the worship and praises we read of in Rev 5:6-14 and Rev 7:10-12, were not Gods first preference from creation, but a back up plan to adam...

    The devil meant sin for evil, but God meant it for Good, to bring about the salvation / redemption of the people by the blood of the lamb, slain from the foundation of the world..
    Last edited by beloved57; December 3rd, 2013 at 04:06 PM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  6. #51
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    16,976
    Thanks
    244
    Thanked 878 Times in 842 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    48808

    The Cross of Christ, the Eternal Purpose of Creation !

    This creation was made to Glorify God, in the totality of His Person, and His Glorious Attributes, and Triunity. The cross of Christ is most vital for the Purpose of all creation, for it exceeds Adam, it exceeds Israel the Nation. In Fact for no other purpose was creation even relevant, for He [Christ] was foreordained before the foundation, He was slain from the foundation.

    1 Cor 1:23

    23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

    1 Cor 2:2

    2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

    1 Pet 1:20

    20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

    Rev 13:8

    8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    Gal 6:14

    14But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

    So creation and all subsequent entities were subservient to a Eternal Redemptive Purpose, the Cross Eph 3:9-11

    9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:


    10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

    11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    For this [ Gods Eternal Purpose of the Cross] this must be factored into Paul's preaching of Christ and Him crucified [ 1 Cor 2:2]

    He writes of their Glory 1 Cor 2:6-7

    6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

    7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

    Paul no doubt had the wisdom of the cross and its Eternal Purpose at Mind.

    An understanding of this can not but establish the Fact that God purposed sin into the World, to accomplish His Eternal Purpose of the cross, Christ and Him crucified.
    Last edited by beloved57; March 8th, 2012 at 01:17 PM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  7. #52
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    16,976
    Thanks
    244
    Thanked 878 Times in 842 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    48808

    God decreed sin !

    God decreed sin into the world, for He Eternally Purposed before the world began, that Christ would be Crucified by wicked and sinful hands Acts 2:23

    23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

    Yes, God's determinate counsel brought into being those wicked hands that crucified and murdered Christ !

    1 Pet 1:20

    20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

    Foreordained for what before the foundation ? To die a redeeming death for sin !

    Rev 13:8

    8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    How then did God Eternally Purpose of this Death, without Eternally purposing the wicked hands be made in fulfilling His Eternal Purpose of Christ's Redeeming Death !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  8. #53
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    16,976
    Thanks
    244
    Thanked 878 Times in 842 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    48808

    Eph 1:4 God's Eternal Purpose for Creation !

    Eph 1:4

    4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: God's Election of a People in Christ was from Eternity Past, before the world, yes even the universe was created. He determined to choose them apart from others that He did not choose in Christ. This Election in Christ was before the Elect were Created in Adam. Now this tells us that this world was Created for man's Existence, The Elect and the Reprobate for God's Eternal Purpose in Christ, a distinct and redemptive purpose Eph 3:11
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  9. #54
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    16,976
    Thanks
    244
    Thanked 878 Times in 842 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    48808

    Which He purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    The God of scripture s a God of purpose, before the World began the God I know of from the scripture, Sovereignly Purposed all things that cometh to pass in time, and nothing has happened without being purposed by Him. Nothing happens by chance with God, nor by bare permission, everything that happens is linked to a predetermined End in involved with God's Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11

    11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    DRA 11 According to the eternal purpose, which he made, in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    Everything occurring in time was purposed by God in Eternity, so the wise man writes Ecclesiastes 3:1

    To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

    This was made so from the strength of God's Eternal Purpose. It was a time for adam to be born or created according to God's Purpose in Christ, as well as a Time set for when Christ Himself would be born of a woman for His Purpose Gal 4:4

    4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

    You see that ? In the fullness of Time ! That refers back to God's Purpose and time under heaven. "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:"

    That's also why we have such scriptures like Rom 8:28

    28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

    Rom 9:11

    11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

    Eph 1:11

    11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

    Eph 3:11

    11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    2 Tim 1:9

    Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

    Isa 14:24

    24 The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  10. #55
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    16,976
    Thanks
    244
    Thanked 878 Times in 842 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    48808

    All things Created by and for Him, Christ !

    Col 1:14-17

    14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

    15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

    16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

    This world, and all things therein, to include Adam [and offspring in him], Eve, the serpent [his offspring in him Gen 3:15] at Creation, were made for a Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus , an Eternal Purpose Eph 3:11

    11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    All things were by Him as the medium of Creation and because of Him for His Redemptive Purpose Vs 14.

    Adam dying and the elect men in Him was purposed by God for His Glory through Jesus Christ. Remember God told Adam this Gen 2:16-17

    16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

    17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    God already from eternity knew Adam and his offspring in him were going to die, and in fact He was informing him of the same, for it was an inevitable event to happen.

    Now we must understand that if God did not want Adam and his offspring in him to sin and justly die , God could have prevented it and kept him back from sinning against Him as here Gen 20:6

    6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.

    The word witheld means:

    to withhold, restrain, hold back, keep in check, refrain

    And God suffered the king not to touch Sarah !

    Now, God, if He so desired could have held back Eve from touching or eating of that Tree that the serpent deceived her into eating from, but God did not because for her to eat and her husband to eat from it served His Purpose in Christ !

    Now who shall deny that God could have done the same unto Adam and Eve as He did to that King ? I challenge anyone to deny it.

    But God's Purpose for decreeing Adam's sin, so that man in him would surely die, was for His Greater Glory in and through the Lord Jesus Christ, for this World was Created because of Him !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  11. #56
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    16,976
    Thanks
    244
    Thanked 878 Times in 842 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    48808

    All things Created by and for Him, Christ ! 2

    But God's Purpose for decreeing Adam's sin, so that man in him would surely die, was for His Greater Glory in and through the Lord Jesus Christ, for this World was Created because of Him !

    For Adam's and his offspring in him sin and death was motivated for His Glory as was Lazarus, and why he died Jn 11:4,11,14-15

    4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

    11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

    14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

    15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.

    It was God's intent that Adam and Eve would Believe in Christ their coming Seed, the Seed of the woman.

    21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.

    22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.

    23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

    40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

    Lazarus death was for the manifestation of the Glory of God, as well as Adam's was for the Glory of God. His Death was for the Glory of God in the Highest Lk 2:14,

    For even if Adam had not sinned, God's Glory could not have been more manifested, even moreso is it through Adam's sin.

    Now ask ourselves, was God the First and Primary from within Himself, as to what would bring Him the Highest and Grandest Glory, or was it only after He foresaw what decisions His creatures would make after He created them ? What was it that dictated God's Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11, was it Himself and His Own Purpose from within, or was it from without His Own Purpose and it being the will of His creatures and if He had His way, He'd prefer that Adam would not sin. The way we answer this question manifests our knowledge of what we know of the True and Living God, or do we believe in a god of our imagination !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  12. #57
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    16,976
    Thanks
    244
    Thanked 878 Times in 842 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    48808

    Created for an Eternal Purpose !

    This world was Created for a very specific God Glorifying Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11 and it involved Redemption through Hid Blood Eph 1:7

    7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    Now when Adam was Created, he was made according to this Purpose Eph 3:11

    11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    Grace had been given God's Elect in Christ Jesus according to this Purpose before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

    9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

    That's why again in Eph 1:7 all given Redemption, Forgiveness was according to the Riches of His Grace, pointing back to that Grace Given them in Christ before the world began, and when Adam was Created, he was Created for that Gracious Redemptive Purpose and not vice versa, and so when Adam sinned it was so that God would make known to Adam his Need of Christ and His Grace, who was to be of his seed according to the flesh, to redeem him, which redemption had been ordained, appointed before time began 1 Pet 1:18-20

    18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

    19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

    20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

    Now this is important information, for Christ, before Adam was Created, had already been foreordained, prepared by God to be the redeeming lamb of the World Jn 1:29

    29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  13. #58
    Maranatha Nanja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Motown
    Posts
    3,570
    Thanks
    711
    Thanked 373 Times in 355 Posts

    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    24195
    Now this is important information, for Christ, before Adam was Created, had already been foreordained, prepared by God to be the redeeming lamb of the World Jn 1:29

    29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

    Yes, that is, the Lamb is the Saviour of the "world" of Israel: all the elect of God, the Seed chosen before the foundation of the world. (Acts 13:23)

    Isaiah 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. (Psalm 14:7)

    Rom. 11:26-27 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
    For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. (Mat. 1:21)

    ~~~~~

  14. #59
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    16,976
    Thanks
    244
    Thanked 878 Times in 842 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    48808

    Created for an Eternal Purpose ! 2

    Now this is important information, for Christ, before Adam was Created, had already been foreordained, prepared by God to be the redeeming lamb of the World Jn 1:29

    29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

    Now understand something, Adam's sin did not happen by accident, but it was a calculated event within the Eternal Purpose God, Christ in God's Eternal Purpose and View had been slain before the foundation Rev 13:8

    8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    The word slain here in the greek is σφάζω:


    I slay, kill by violence, slaughter, wound mortally.
    to slay, slaughter, butcher: properly,

    A primary verb; to butcher (especially an animal for food or in sacrifice)

    The tense of the verb is perfect, which indicates an act accomplished in the past with the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect.

    Peter goes on to write in 1 Pet 1:20

    20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

    That Christ by His Incarnation has been manifested in these last times for YOU !

    Which means He became manifested, came to view openly, for the sake of God's Elect, those foreknown 1 Pet 1:2

    Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    The word foreknowledge here is the same word as in Vs 20 but only a Noun !

    Now this being manifested , is the same as 1 Jn 3:8

    8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

    Now of course this means also that the works of the devil, that which Christ became manifest to destroy, that they were also according to the Eternal Purpose of God in Christ, so neither was the deed of causing Adam and Eve to sin a accident, but it was preordained before the foundation !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  15. #60
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    16,976
    Thanks
    244
    Thanked 878 Times in 842 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    48808
    nanja

    Yes, that is, the Lamb is the Saviour of the "world" of Israel: all the elect of God, the Seed chosen before the foundation of the world. (Acts 13:23)
    Yes, in fact, Adam was of that seed Chosen before the foundation of the world. The mistake is that people think that Adam was the Natural Federal Head of the Non Elect in the beginning, but he was not only of the Elect !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to beloved57 For Your Post:

    Nanja (September 1st, 2017)

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us