User Tag List

Page 18 of 18 FirstFirst ... 815161718
Results 256 to 265 of 265

Thread: The Eternal Purpose of creation !

  1. #256
    Over 2000 post club KingdomRose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Norwich, CT.
    Posts
    2,206
    Thanks
    586
    Thanked 505 Times in 433 Posts

    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    31751
    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Eph 3:7-11

    7Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

    8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

    9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

    10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

    11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    Col 1:14-16

    14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

    15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

    16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    The creation of the world was Soterilogical and Redemptive for all intents and purposes..

    Gen 1:1

    1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    This is where God begins to manifest a Divine Eternal Purpose, which He eons afore time, purposed in Himself, the Triune God..

    This Eternal Purpose was predicated upon God manifesting His redemptive [from sin] wisdom of His Chosen People, the Vessels of Mercy Rom 9:23..

    Hence from all eternity God, That the world He created through Jesus Christ Eph 3:9 would be for the display of His manifold wisdom and grace in the redemption of Chosen lost sinners. Eph 3:10

    10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

    For the execution and accomplishment of this Eternal Purpose, God has sovereignly controlled the world from its beginning, and will continue until its consummation, and time will be no more.

    All that happens in this world, mysteriously has Soteriological and or Redemptive meaning, that which is both good and evil is included. All has been ordained by God and serves to operate into the displaying the manifold Wisdom of God in the Salvation or Redemption of the Church and His Glorification Through Jesus Christ !
    You'd best check your facts before making such misleading statements. God is NOT "triune." That pagan belief has no place in the true faith.

    Also, "the world" that saw the beginning of God's plan of salvation was not the planet but was the same "world" as is spoken about in I John 2:15-17. It was the world of mankind alienated from God. The creation of Earth and mankind was not so that mankind could be saved. God created the earth so that humans could live on it forever in paradise conditions. There was originally NO NEED of salvation. That need came when the first man disobeyed and took something that wasn't his, showing his contempt for God's rulership.

    Jesus died so that humans could, in effect, take up where Adam left off (plunging his offspring into sin and death), that is, taking care of the earth and being God's friend. (Genesis 1:28; 2:15)

    There is no "mystery" any more. The only mystery that there ever was was who the Messiah would be, and who his co-rulers would be.

    Everything is simple. God is one Person---Jehovah. His Son is the only-begotten Jesus, the first of creation, the only person or thing created by Jehovah himself. (Colossians 1:15) Jesus has bought us back from sin and death so that we can live in perfect physical bodies on the beautiful planet Earth forever.

  2. #257
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    16,714
    Thanks
    209
    Thanked 779 Times in 744 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    47461
    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    You'd best check your facts before making such misleading statements. God is NOT "triune." That pagan belief has no place in the true faith.

    Also, "the world" that saw the beginning of God's plan of salvation was not the planet but was the same "world" as is spoken about in I John 2:15-17. It was the world of mankind alienated from God. The creation of Earth and mankind was not so that mankind could be saved. God created the earth so that humans could live on it forever in paradise conditions. There was originally NO NEED of salvation. That need came when the first man disobeyed and took something that wasn't his, showing his contempt for God's rulership.

    Jesus died so that humans could, in effect, take up where Adam left off (plunging his offspring into sin and death), that is, taking care of the earth and being God's friend. (Genesis 1:28; 2:15)

    There is no "mystery" any more. The only mystery that there ever was was who the Messiah would be, and who his co-rulers would be.

    Everything is simple. God is one Person---Jehovah. His Son is the only-begotten Jesus, the first of creation, the only person or thing created by Jehovah himself. (Colossians 1:15) Jesus has bought us back from sin and death so that we can live in perfect physical bodies on the beautiful planet Earth forever.
    Wild rabbit trail !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  3. #258
    Over 2000 post club KingdomRose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Norwich, CT.
    Posts
    2,206
    Thanks
    586
    Thanked 505 Times in 433 Posts

    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    31751
    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    we already are discussing that..though its possible, its not certain, all those could have been non elect as well, and consequently would go to hell for their sin in the their head, which would be satan..all the non elect, wether fetus or 100 yr old person, sinned initially in the devil their Father..

    Then some could have been elect..we dont know..
    Oh tut tut tut! No, it's NOT possible! beloved57 will lead you right down a dead-end path. There isn't even a literal hell-fire!

    Children, babies, aborted fetuses, miscarriages will NOT be in heaven ruling with Christ. Jesus said it would be people who had "stuck with him in his trials." (Luke 22:28) Adult Christians.

    If Adam had not rebelled he would still be here, and there would have been no need for mankind to be saved.

    Only a small number will go to heaven. They will be co-rulers with Christ, helping to guide billions of people here on the earth, to restore it to its perfect condition, to welcome back the dead, to build beautiful homes, and generally make the earth a wonderful place to live.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to KingdomRose For Your Post:

    SonOfCaleb (April 30th, 2017)

  5. #259
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    16,714
    Thanks
    209
    Thanked 779 Times in 744 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    47461
    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    Oh tut tut tut! No, it's NOT possible! beloved57 will lead you right down a dead-end path. There isn't even a literal hell-fire!

    Children, babies, aborted fetuses, miscarriages will NOT be in heaven ruling with Christ. Jesus said it would be people who had "stuck with him in his trials." (Luke 22:28) Adult Christians.

    If Adam had not rebelled he would still be here, and there would have been no need for mankind to be saved.

    Only a small number will go to heaven. They will be co-rulers with Christ, helping to guide billions of people here on the earth, to restore it to its perfect condition, to welcome back the dead, to build beautiful homes, and generally make the earth a wonderful place to live.
    Please get lost, don't have time for your foolishness !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  6. #260
    Over 2000 post club KingdomRose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Norwich, CT.
    Posts
    2,206
    Thanks
    586
    Thanked 505 Times in 433 Posts

    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    31751
    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Please get lost, don't have time for your foolishness !
    LOL!!! The reply of a person who cannot back up his own foolishness.

  7. #261
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    16,714
    Thanks
    209
    Thanked 779 Times in 744 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    47461
    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    LOL!!! The reply of a person who cannot back up his own foolishness.
    Since you don't want to get lost, I will lose you!

    Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  8. #262
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    16,714
    Thanks
    209
    Thanked 779 Times in 744 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    47461
    Was Adam created by God in accordance with His Eternal Purpose in Christ?

    Now scripture says this Ephesians 3:9-11

    9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

    10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

    11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    Also speaking of Christ its written Col 1:16-17

    16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

    Now was Adam created for Him? Christ and His redeeming purpose?

    God predetermined that His Elect vessels of mercy should fall in Adam!
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  9. #263
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    16,714
    Thanks
    209
    Thanked 779 Times in 744 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    47461
    Everything God commanded of Adam and Eve at their Creation was in accordance to them being Created by and for Jesus Christ.

    Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  10. #264
    Maranatha Nanja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Motown
    Posts
    3,474
    Thanks
    614
    Thanked 335 Times in 318 Posts

    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    22848
    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Everything God commanded of Adam and Eve at their Creation was in accordance to them being Created by and for Jesus Christ.

    Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app

    Amen Brother! It was God's Eternal Purpose for His Elect, chosen in union with Christ before the foundation Eph. 1:4-7, His Church and Sheep; His Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23, to sin in Adam the Federal Head of God's Elect, because they had already been given Saving Grace before the World began.

    2 Tim. 1:9
    Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

    Eph. 3:11
    According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    And God's Eternal Purpose is revealed in New Birth to every one of them in time.

    Ps. 25:14
    The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

    So that's why Adam must sin, because in the Mind of God, His Son had already been constituted the Lamb Slain before the foundation of the world Rev. 13:8, and risen as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb. 13:20.

    Therefore also, the dominions of sin Rom. 6:14 and death Rom. 6:9 were created for Christ to Save His People from Mat. 1:21: To Bring Glory to God:

    Col. 1:16
    For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    Rev. 4:11
    Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Nanja For Your Post:

    beloved57 (May 19th, 2017)

  12. #265
    Maranatha Nanja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Motown
    Posts
    3,474
    Thanks
    614
    Thanked 335 Times in 318 Posts

    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    22848
    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    The human race and all the inhabitants of the world were made for Christ Dan 4:35

    35And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

    They were created to manifest his ability to form different kinds and order of beings. In creating the inferior beings [ animals] he displayed his ability to create material beings, and their various usefulness to mankind..In the creation of man He showed His ability to make beings who were both material and spiritual, that is the union of the material body with the spiritual and immortal soul..

    The humans were created for Christ that he may display His infinite perfections in the redemption of their souls, in this grand display and work is made known the most wonderful display of His perfections which men or angels will ever behold..

    Now in creating mankind, they were created for different displays of the Divine Purposes, some of us were created as vessels of mercy, and some of us were created as vessels of wrath per Rom 9:13-24

    13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.


    14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

    15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

    16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

    17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

    18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

    19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

    20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

    21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

    22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

    23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

    24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

    All men are made within the eternal purpose of the purpose of election Rom 9:11

    And within that purpose, we [ from everlasting] are either hated by God or Loved by God vs 13..

    Jacob is Representative of all the beloved of God within the purpose of election and Esau is Representative of all the hated of God within the purpose of election..

    Each person or group of persons have been made, that is bought into being, to display God's purpose of mercy for sinners or Gods wrath for sinners..

    The vessels of wrath vs 22 are also what scripture terms the wicked as in Prov 16:4

    4The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

    This is not speaking about people who do wicked things, but people whom all their lives, no matter what, whether very religious or non religious, will only be the wicked before God, that is vessels of wrath, created for that purpose..

    The elect, are the righteous, even when they are born by nature, wicked in their mind and works..Col 1:21

    And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

    Now, who are the And You that Paul is addressing here, when he declares, ye were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works !

    Let me tell you now, He was not speaking to the those who are called the wicked in Prov 16:4 but He is speaking to the beloved of God..

    Lets look at a scripture in col that will confirm this. Col 3:12

    Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

    This being beloved, was a true fact, while they were alienated and enemies in their minds by wicked works, for they were the beloved of God before they were born into that condition, even from everlasting were they the beloved of God, and never " The wicked " of Prov 16:4

    But the beloved of God are born in the sinful condition we are by nature, for the purpose of mercy, thats why Paul says some are vessels of mercy Rom 9:23, this mercy is displayed to them, because of what they are by nature..but, even though that is True by nature, yet are they also the righteous.. The gospel declares righteous all those believing in Jesus Christ, but before God declares one righteous, He must first view you as righteous, and just how is that done ?

    2 Cor 5:21

    For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    Everyone Christ was made sin for, [ died for their sins] has been made righteous by God, because their sins, their wicked works, were never laid to their charge 2 Cor 5:19

    19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    Their sins were not imputed unto them, the word imputed here is the greek word:
    logizomai :

    to reckon, count, compute, calculate, count over
    a) to take into account, to make an account of
    1) metaph. to pass to one's account, to impute

    Their sins were not laid to their account as the word means here in 2 Tim 4:16

    16At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge

    So the force of what Paul is saying in 2 Cor 5:19, is that their is a world [ both jews and gentiles] who God does not lay to their charge, all their trespasses and sins that they shall commit. And since they never had their sins laid to their charge, they were not guilty of their crimes, and instead, their head, the Lord Jesus Christ was made to suffer and die for their crimes, because instead of God laying them to their account, He laid them to His account..Isa 53:6

    6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

    You see, God is too Just, to have laid their sins to their charge, and at the same time laid them to the charge of their shepherd !

    And so the non imputation of their sins, was accompanied by the imputation of His righteousness [ their shepherd] to their account, hence they were made righteous by imputation Rom 4:6-8


    6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,


    7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

    So here we see both imputations go hand in hand, those whom have imputed righteousness vs 6 are those who have not had their sins imputed unto them vs 8 and 2 Cor 5:19

    And so, we have it, God or Christ made both the wicked and the righteous.. for His redemptive purpose..

    The wicked, are the vessels of wrath, who do have their sins imputed to their charge, and the vessels of mercy, the righteous, do not have their sins laid to their charge, but instead to the charge of their shepherd, and the shepherd giveth His life for the sheep, and not the goats..

    Amen, and Thank You Brother for this comprehensive study in the scriptures, proving that God Himself has predetermined from everlasting, according to His Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph. 3:11, which portion of humanity never had any sin imputed to it [Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23: SHEEP], and which portion shall die in their sins [Vessels of Wrath Rom. 9:22: GOATS].

    And because the Acts of God are Eternal and originate in His Mind, they are immutable Mal. 3:6; not subject to change by the so-called will of the created thing.

    Dan. 4:35
    And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

    Job 23:13-14
    13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. 14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us