Justice Kavanaugh’s first test on abortion comes this week

jgarden · Oct 23, 2018

Justice Kavanaugh’s first test on abortion comes this week

ProLife supporters are vocal when expressing that no effort should be spared when saving the life of the foetus, but they are eerily silent when it comes to addressing the topic of those medical costs that accompany such efforts!

These children are often born with pre-existing medical conditions that no insurance company wants to underwrite - where is all this "self-righteous indignation" when individual families are left to cope with the mounting financial burden?

chair · Oct 23, 2018

JudgeRightly said:
So what? Location of the delivery has no bearing on if it's right or wrong to stop and kill the baby.

Would you like to address my point or are you going to continue to squirm?

Location and time have everything to do with this. You and Stripe keep pretending that all babies, always, were and are delivered in modern Western hospitals. That is simply false- you are the folks who are squirming.

But, hey- if you don't want to face reality, fine. View it as a thought experiment. Is the life of an unborn child worth exactly as much as that of an adult?

JudgeRightly · Oct 23, 2018

chair said:
Location and time have everything to do with this.

No, they don't. Murder is ABSOLUTELY wrong. Do you not know the definition of absolute?

You and Stripe keep pretending that all babies, always, were and are delivered in modern Western hospitals.

No, we don't.

That is simply false- you are the folks who are squirming.

:dunce:

But, hey- if you don't want to face reality, fine. View it as a thought experiment. Is the life of an unborn child worth exactly as much as that of an adult?

Both the mother and baby have INFINITE worth.

You're trying to turn this into a math equation. Stop. Humans are not variables in a math equation. They're people, made in the image of God.

But hey, if you don't want to face reality, it'll come back to bite you on Judgment Day.

Stripe · Oct 23, 2018

jgarden said:
ProLife supporters are vocal when expressing that no effort should be spared when saving the life of the foetus.

And pro-aborts shriek, scream and lash out when their supposed "right" to murder kids is questioned.

chair said:
You and Stripe keep pretending that all babies, always, were and are delivered in modern Western hospitals.

Nope. No matter where our when, delivering the baby might be the best thing to do in an emergency.

It is never necessary to halt delivery in order to kill the baby.

Is the life of an unborn child worth exactly as much as that of an adult?

How about you answer the pertinent question: Why is abortion wrong (but not murder)?

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Jonahdog · Oct 23, 2018

jgarden said:
Justice Kavanaugh’s first test on abortion comes this week

ProLife supporters are vocal when expressing that no effort should be spared when saving the life of the foetus, but they are eerily silent when it comes to addressing the topic of those medical costs that accompany such efforts!

These children are often born with pre-existing medical conditions that no insurance company wants to underwrite - where is all this "self-righteous indignation" when individual families are left to cope with the mounting financial burden?

Well if you dont have the $ you should not have sex. Easy solution to the problem.

JudgeRightly · Oct 23, 2018

Jonahdog said:
Well if you dont have the $ you should not have sex. Easy solution to the problem.

Not really a solution, that one.

Here's the best solution: don't have sex outside of marriage, so that there's a supporting structure called a family for taking care of children.

Also, punish rapists by putting them to death, and love the child.

chair · Oct 23, 2018

JudgeRightly said:
No, they don't. Murder is ABSOLUTELY wrong. Do you not know the definition of absolute?

The question is: Is it murder? This is exactly the assumption I am questioning.

JudgeRightly said:
But hey, if you don't want to face reality, it'll come back to bite you on Judgment Day.

Do you speak for God? Have his cell phone number?

JudgeRightly · Oct 23, 2018

chair said:
The question is: Is it murder?

The answer is:

YES, it is murder.

This is exactly the assumption I am questioning.

Well, then I'm glad I can put your questioning to rest.

Do you speak for God? Have his cell phone number?

I have his Word, the book He wrote for all of humanity, and a direct line of communication with Him via prayer. You do too, but first you need to Romans 10:9.

chair · Oct 23, 2018

JudgeRightly said:
The answer is:

YES, it is murder.

Well, then I'm glad I can put your questioning to rest.

I have his Word, the book He wrote for all of humanity, and a direct line of communication with Him via prayer. You do too, but first you need to Romans 10:9.

Whatever. Enjoy your non-thinking belief in whatever it is you believe.....

Yorzhik · Oct 23, 2018

chair said:
Whatever. Enjoy your non-thinking belief in whatever it is you believe.....

Chair, you used to have thought in your responses. But you are just an NPC in this thread. Why?

Did you have an abortion? Did you have one done for someone you got pregnant? Did you approve of one for someone else?

The questions are clear - Why is abortion wrong but not murder? Is it ever right to stop to kill the baby? And additionally I'd like to ask; if we view the baby-before-it-is-born as a human, aren't our protestations reasonable?

If you can answer that last one in the affirmative, then can you restate our argument or are you an NPC? If you answer in the negative, then why do you say abortion is wrong in any way?

chair · Oct 24, 2018

Yorzhik said:
Chair, you used to have thought in your responses. But you are just an NPC in this thread. Why?

Did you have an abortion? Did you have one done for someone you got pregnant? Did you approve of one for someone else?

The questions are clear - Why is abortion wrong but not murder? Is it ever right to stop to kill the baby? And additionally I'd like to ask; if we view the baby-before-it-is-born as a human, aren't our protestations reasonable?

If you can answer that last one in the affirmative, then can you restate our argument or are you an NPC? If you answer in the negative, then why do you say abortion is wrong in any way?

This will seem strange to you- but I don't know what an "NPC" is.

And yes, it could be considered OK to kill the baby in order to save the mother's life. Your friends here insist that such a case could never happen- I guess the idea would shake their beliefs too much or something.

The main question is whether an unborn child is a complete human in the sense that an adult is. Anti Abortion folks here (pro-life, sorry)insist that it is. Why- they feel no need to explain, even though that is the crux of the matter.

I am not anti-life, pro choice, or pro abortion at all. I think it is criminal, just not quite murder. Why does that get people so uptight?

JudgeRightly · Oct 24, 2018

chair said:
This will seem strange to you- but I don't know what an "NPC" is.

Google is your friend in this situation.

And in case it's not, I read "NPC" as "Non-Playable Character." But maybe that's just because I play too many vidyagames... :think:

And yes, it could be considered OK to kill the baby in order to save the mother's life.

What possible situation would require the doctor (or whoever is doing the caring) to stop caring for either and kill the baby, and then go back to kill the mother?

Wouldn't it be better to simply deliver the baby, hand him off to someone else for them to care for the baby, and then go back to caring for the mother? Or even if there's just one person, set the baby aside and go back to caring for the mother?

What reason do you have for that person to stop what he's doing and kill the baby?

You have yet to provide one. Why? Because there IS NO REASON TO! It's just your lust for the blood of the innocent. You are so mentally ill that all you can think about is that there must be a way to kill the baby at some point and it be ok.

It's not enough that the baby might die naturally, no. You ACTUALLY WANT the baby dead, as soon as possible! You are a murderer at heart, Chair. You need to turn to God and tell Him you're sorry for wanting innocent babies to be murdered!

Your friends here insist that such a case could never happen-

You have yet to provide one. The onus is on you to support your case. If we're wrong, TELL US WHY!!!!!!!!

I guess the idea would shake their beliefs too much or something.

Ignorant.

You need to first supply an example where it would be ok to kill the baby. Since you cannot (or will not), our beliefs are vindicated.

The main question is whether an unborn child is a complete human in the sense that an adult is.

No, the main question is when is it ok to kill a baby. The answer is NEVER, because it's an innocent person made in God's image.

Anti Abortion folks here (pro-life, sorry)

"Pro-life" is overrated these days. Anti-abortion is fine.

insist that it is. Why- they feel no need to explain, even though that is the crux of the matter.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

We have answered plenty of times why. You just never listen.

I am not anti-life,

If you're pro-murder, you're anti-life.

You're pro-murder.

pro choice,

Pro choice is just a politically correct way of saying "do X and then you can kill the baby," which is murder, which means your pro murder. Which makes you anti-life.

or pro abortion at all.

This is an outright lie.

Here is what you said earlier in this very post:

And yes, it could be considered OK to kill the baby in order to save the mother's life.

That is called ABORTION! You are pro abortion. You are FOR KILLING an unborn baby.

That makes you pro-murder. Which means you are anti-life!

You are the very definition of someone who is anti-life.

I think it is criminal, just not quite murder. Why does that get people so uptight?

It's criminal BECAUSE IT'S MURDER!!! IT'S MURDER BECAUSE IT'S A BABY!!! IT'S NEVER OK TO KILL A BABY!

chair · Oct 24, 2018

JudgeRightly said:
What possible situation would require the doctor ...

Reading my previous posts will help. A midwife in central Africa doesn't have the same options as a doctor in a hospital. I started this by mentioning that the subject was discussed in ancient Jewish legal texts. I'm not making this up.

JudgeRightly · Oct 24, 2018

chair said:
Reading my previous posts will help.

I've already read them. They don't answer my question.

A midwife in central Africa doesn't have the same options as a doctor in a hospital.

So what? The midwife in africa must stop and kill the baby to continue caring for the mother? Why not just set the baby to the side and let it live while still caring for the mother? Why not, if at all possible, hand the baby off to the next person nearby?

WHY DOES THE ONE CARING FOR THE MOTHER HAVE TO STOP CARING LONG ENOUGH TO KILL THE BABY!?

I started this by mentioning that the subject was discussed in ancient Jewish legal texts. I'm not making this up.

Which Jewish texts? Either provide a source, or link to where you did.

The Bible clearly states that if in the commission of a crime a baby in the womb is killed (either right away or harmed so that it later dies), the criminal should be put to death.

chair · Oct 24, 2018

Here's the best reference I could find in English on short notice. The text is from about 200 AD.

Please note that it is very graphic.

http://learn.conservativeyeshiva.org/ohalot-7-6-htm/

Stripe · Oct 24, 2018

chair said:
This will seem strange to you- but I don't know what an "NPC" is.

Non-playing character.

It could be considered OK to kill the baby in order to save the mother's life. Your friends here insist that such a case could never happen.

You've been told numerous times what we hold to, but insist on saying it is something else.

It is never OK to murder one in the name of saving another. Moreover, it is impossible for such a scenario to arise in a pregnancy. In an emergency scenario, the baby might need to be delivered to give both the best chance. There are no guarantees. There is no guarantee that both will die if no action is taken. There is no guarantee that both will live. The only time certainty is involved is when you insist the process of delivery must be halted in order that a pair of scissors can be inserted into the baby's head to kill him.

I guess the idea would shake their beliefs too much or something.

Reality. Abortion is never necessary for the life of the mother.

The main question is whether an unborn child is a complete human in the sense that an adult is. Anti Abortion folks here (pro-life, sorry)insist that it is. Why- they feel no need to explain, even though that is the crux of the matter.

Nope. Explained in great detail thousands of times. Literally. What we don't get is a rational defense from those who support abortion through all nine months.

You've drawn some arbitrary line at which you assert personhood begins, but you won't share where your line is or answer questions over why we should adhere to your standards.

Meanwhile, conception is the biological, rational, fact-based line between potential and personhood.

This is the position of the anti-abortion — that is: anti-murder — side.

I am not anti-life, pro choice, or pro abortion at all. I think it is criminal, just not quite murder. Why does that [prompt challenges I don't like]?

1. You won't explain yourself. You say it's wrong (but not murder), but won't explain how you arrive at such a belief.

2. You mischaracterize the other side, pretending we do not believe emergency situations might arise.

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ok doser · Oct 24, 2018

chair said:
...whether an unborn child is a complete human in the sense that an adult is....

which adult?

the iraq war vet missing limbs?

is he a "complete human"?

how about the elderly patient with severe dementia?

is she a "complete human"?

how about a newborn?

is he "a complete human in the sense that an adult is"?

how about a two year old?

what exactly do you mean by "a complete human in the sense that an adult is"?

JudgeRightly · Oct 24, 2018

chair said:
Here's the best reference I could find in English on short notice. The text is from about 200 AD.

Please note that it is very graphic.

http://learn.conservativeyeshiva.org/ohalot-7-6-htm/

I have a source that has authors from 1600BC to around 90AD. It's called the Bible.

Here's a few excerpts:

http://americanrtl.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion

ok doser · Oct 24, 2018

chair said:
Here's the best reference I could find in English on short notice. The text is from about 200 AD.

Please note that it is very graphic.

http://learn.conservativeyeshiva.org/ohalot-7-6-htm/

from your link:

Explanation

Section one: While still in the womb, the fetus’s life does not take precedence over the mother’s. Indeed, one might not even go so far as to call it a “life.”

ummmmmmmm

no

sorry :idunno:

every mother with a wanted child, who hasn't lied to herself to ameliorate her conscience to allow herself to murder her child, knows that her baby is alive

and human

now, if some evil rabbis want to pretend it isn't alive to ameliorate their consciences, fine

but i don't have to respect their self-delusion

JudgeRightly · Oct 24, 2018

[Never mind]

Justice Kavanaugh’s first test on abortion comes this week

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