This is what emboldened white supremacists look like

Catholic Crusader · Feb 18, 2018

Town Heretic said:
.....And we agree on Stalin......

Good.

Town Heretic said:
...........But there's a world of difference between Stalin's USSR and socialism else. Kids today aren't advocating for a Soviet style implementation of socialism, to the extent they're really engaged on the point.....

I doubt if the Russians who were oppressed by the Czars and supported the Revolution realized what they would end up with. In their case its understandable that they were duped. In today's kids' case, there is no excuse for their stupidity. When socialism takes over, a Soviet or Nazi style fate is assured. Oh, it may not be as grandiose, but it will be all the same: Loss of rights, loss of freedom, economic devastation, and ultimately collapse. And if not collapse, a lingering near-death like Cuba.

That any American can embrace socialism is utterly stupefying.

Town Heretic · Feb 18, 2018

CatholicCrusader said:
I doubt if the Russians who were oppressed by the Czars and supported the Revolution realized what they would end up with.

I'd bet a lot of people were just ready for anything else. And, of course, a lot sided with Trotsky. And then there's a matter of misrepresentation and power plays and how the beginning was very different from the end.

In their case its understandable that they were duped. In today's kids' case, there is no excuse for their stupidity.

In the first case we're talking about revolution and armed usurpation of one tyrant by another. But that's not how socialism is in any number of expressions in the modern era and not how it would be here. Don't mistake me, I'm no real fan of it as a prime mover, but to suggest that socialism must result in a Soviet perversion of the philosophy just isn't so.

When socialism takes over, a Soviet or Nazi style fate is assured.

Any number of examples that contradict that position. Ultimately, it's not a better system on the whole. But then, if we can't moderate capitalism it's not exactly a beacon on a hill either.

Oh, it may not be as grandiose, but it will be all the same: Loss of rights, loss of freedom, economic devastation, and ultimately collapse. And if not collapse, a lingering near-death like Cuba.

None of that necessarily follows or has in other countries.

That any American can embracer socialism is utterly stupefying.

It's really more about what a small group of people have done to capitalism that's at the heart of it. Either someone will shake that class into a sea change sponsored by long term self-interest of socialism will one day, in some form, rule this roost.

Catholic Crusader · Feb 18, 2018

Town Heretic said:
........It's really more about what a small group of people have done to capitalism that's at the heart of it. Either someone will shake that class into a sea change sponsored by long term self-interest of socialism will one day, in some form, rule this roost.

That's a false narrative. In 2010 there were 27.9 million small businesses in America according to the U.S. Census Bureau. There are more now. That is the beating heart of Capitalism and they account for most American jobs.

Fake News Leftists would hold up a handful of corrupt businessmen and make people think that all of Capitalism is bad. Thats ridiculous. On its worst day Capitalism is a million times better than Socialism on a good day.

The Barbarian · Feb 18, 2018

CatholicCrusader said:
That's a false narrative. In 2010 there were 27.9 million small businesses in America according to the U.S. Census Bureau. There are more now. That is the beating heart of Capitalism and they account for most American jobs.

Well, that's a testable assertion...

Turns out, that ended about 1996, when large firms began to represent the bulk of employment. Small businesses are being squeezed out by various means. Tort reform was basically intended to make it difficult for small businesses to sue or defend themselves from lawsuits against large corporations.

Laws since the 1990s have been more and more designed to favor large corporations and to impair small businesses.

On its worst day Capitalism is a million times better than Socialism on a good day.

Too much hyperbole, but you're more right than wrong on that point. I think the key here is to realize that pro-business is not necessarily pro-capitalist. Businessmen do as much as they can to keep market forces from operating.

And it's not surprising. They want to maximize profits and competition tends to keep them from doing that. Even Adam Smith noted the tendency of businessmen to try to avoid market forces.

Town Heretic · Feb 18, 2018

CatholicCrusader said:
That's a false narrative.

No, but the "of" should have read "or." But you keep telling yourself that kids are looking at socialism for no real reason if it makes you feel better.

In 2010 there were 27.9 million small businesses in America according to the U.S. Census Bureau. There are more now.

Since economists started keeping track in the 70s every decade has seen fewer people in the middle class at the end of each decade.

Fake News Leftists would hold up a handful of corrupt businessmen and make people think that all of Capitalism is bad.

No that's not it. That's the narrative that makes it easy to dismiss, but the truth is we live in a culture where corporations have held down wages while the cost of living continues to rise and the price of their goods with it. We live in a corporate culture of institutionalized greed divorced from any sense of noblesse oblige and the next generation is getting impatient.

On its worst day Capitalism is a million times better than Socialism on a good day.

Well, no, which is why it's in trouble. We've seen too much of the worst and socialism is appealing in that light.

intojoy · Feb 18, 2018

Town Heretic said:
At last count there are around 130 Klan groups, 99 Neo-Nazi, 100 White Nationalist, 78 Racist Skinhead, and 43 Neo Confederate groups operating within our borders spread across the land in every state. And that's before you get to the unaffiliated ignoramuses. But they are fairly marginal all things considered and they were in steady decline until 2015, but have ticked up in the last couple. They aren't a threat to the stability of the nation so much as they are a small, loud, embarrassing part of it.

A force of equal evil? A different sort of problem, since they support violent opposition often enough, which simply cannot be allowed in a civil society. But no one knows how large the still relatively disorganized, anti-fascist movement is. It's mostly seemed to gain steam in opposition and response to the White Supremacist movement airing its dirty laundry of late and if the social media footprint is any indication their numbers are even smaller than the WS.

I actually agree with that. Extremists are usually the problem in anything.

And we agree on Stalin. We coddled him because we wanted to use the Soviets to help break Hitler's armies. But there's a world of difference between Stalin's USSR and socialism else. Kids today aren't advocating for a Soviet style implementation of socialism, to the extent they're really engaged on the point. And if capitalism would restrain its worse impulses and the elite it has spawned internationally would stop and reconsider the cash grab mistakes they're making that support would fade.

There's no reason to support your first contention and it's grossly irresponsible. They appear willing to use violence to confront the WS movement, which is wrong and illegal, but to compare that to the Nazis and their systematic attempt to commit genocide of various peoples is unwarranted and unsupportable.

Everyone should oppose evil and attempting to marginalize it by calling it a strawman is also irresponsible. Rather, decry racism and decry those who oppose legal if stupid activity by a violent means. I'm fine with that.

Condemning violence on either side would be appropriate and right. Suggesting there were good people on either side wasn't, as it offered comfort to those strawmen you dismiss and it sent the wrong signal from the leader of the nation.

That’s it? We need pick up our numbers to combat the halfernicks in our country.

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jgarden · Feb 18, 2018

CatholicCrusader said:
That's a false narrative. In 2010 there were 27.9 million small businesses in America according to the U.S. Census Bureau. There are more now. That is the beating heart of Capitalism and they account for most American jobs.

Fake News Leftists would hold up a handful of corrupt businessmen and make people think that all of Capitalism is bad. Thats ridiculous. On its worst day Capitalism is a million times better than Socialism on a good day.

WHERE TO BE BORN INDEX

The independent variables in the estimating equation :
******************************************************
- Material well-being as measured by GDP per capita
- Life expectancy at birth
- The quality of family life based primarily on divorce rates
- The state of political freedoms
- Job security (measured by the unemployment rate)
- Climate (measured by two variables: the average deviation of minimum and maximum monthly temperatures from 14 degrees Celsius; and the number of months in the year with less than 30mm rainfall)
- Personal physical security ratings (based primarily on recorded homicide rates and ratings for risk from crime and terrorism)
- Quality of community life (based on membership in social organisations)
- Governance (measured by ratings for corruption)
- Gender equality (measured by the share of seats in parliament held by women)

Where to be born index (2013)

Rank - Country - Score (out of 10)
**********************************************
1 Switzerland 8.22
2 Australia 8.12
3 Norway 8.09
4 Sweden 8.02
5 Denmark 8.01
6 Singapore 8.00
7 New Zealand 7.95
8 Netherlands 7.94
9 Canada 7.81
10 Hong Kong 7.80
11 Finland 7.76
12 Ireland 7.74
13 Austria 7.73
14 Taiwan 7.67
15 Belgium 7.51
16 Germany 7.38
16 United States 7.38
18 United Arab Emirates 7.33
19 South Korea 7.25
20 Israel 7.23

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where-to-be-born_Index

Comparing social, economic and political variables, the United States ranks 16th behind nations that would all be considered "socialist" by American standards!

It should be noted that in 1988, America lead all nations on the index, which begs the question as to whether its time to re-examine our priorities, learn why 15 other nations have passed us by and make fundamental changes!

Where to be born index (1988)
********************************************************
1 United States
2 France
3 West Germany
4 Italy
5 Canada
6 Japan
7 Hong Kong
8 United Kingdom
9 Netherlands
10 South Korea
11 Austria
12 Norway
13 Switzerland
14 Belgium
15 Ireland
16 Spain
17 Australia
18 Finland
19 New Zealand
20 Argentina

intojoy · Feb 18, 2018

jgarden said:
Comparing economic, economic and political variables, the United States ranks 16th behind nations that would all be considered "socialist" by American standards!

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intojoy · Feb 18, 2018

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jgarden · Feb 18, 2018

Given that in America, marking one's ballot occurs within the privacy of a polling booth, how can "intojoy" claim to know how any of these individuals voted - assuming that they voted at all?

The Republicans currently control the White House, the House and the Senate - name one constructive measure that has been taken after the Las Vegas shootings (58 dead, over 500 injured), that they have taken to protect the American people?

No other modern democracy experiences the same high rate of gun violence and mass shootings that currently exists in America!

intojoy · Feb 19, 2018

jgarden said:
Given that in America, marking one's ballot occurs within the privacy of a polling booth, how can "intojoy" claim to know how any of these individuals voted - assuming that they voted at all?

The Republicans currently control the White House, the House and the Senate - name one constructive measure that has been taken after the Las Vegas shootings (58 dead, over 500 injured), that they have taken to protect the American people?

No other modern democracy experiences the same high rate of gun violence and mass shootings that currently exists in America!

Fake news

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The Barbarian · Feb 19, 2018

jgarden said:
Comparing social, economic and political variables, the United States ranks 16th behind nations that would all be considered "socialist" by American standards!

It should be noted that in 1988, America lead all nations on the index, which begs the question as to whether its time to re-examine our priorities, learn why 15 other nations have passed us by and make fundamental changes!

Note though, that the United States is far ahead of many nations that are socialist. The most salient cause of our fall to #16 was the recovery of Europe from WWII, and the rising income inequality in the United States.

All the nations above us have less inequality. When we had more equality, we led the world in our economic health and well-being. Now we're slipping.

That's how things go.

intojoy · Feb 21, 2018

The Barbarian said:
Note though, that the United States is far ahead of many nations that are socialist. The most salient cause of our fall to #16 was the recovery of Europe from WWII, and the rising income inequality in the United States.

All the nations above us have less inequality. When we had more equality, we led the world in our economic health and well-being. Now we're slipping.

That's how things go.

Get a job

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The Barbarian · Feb 21, 2018

Town Heretic said:
I'd bet a lot of people were just ready for anything else. And, of course, a lot sided with Trotsky. And then there's a matter of misrepresentation and power plays and how the beginning was very different from the end.

In the first case we're talking about revolution and armed usurpation of one tyrant by another. But that's not how socialism is in any number of expressions in the modern era and not how it would be here. Don't mistake me, I'm no real fan of it as a prime mover, but to suggest that socialism must result in a Soviet perversion of the philosophy just isn't so.

Any number of examples that contradict that position. Ultimately, it's not a better system on the whole. But then, if we can't moderate capitalism it's not exactly a beacon on a hill either.

None of that necessarily follows or has in other countries.

It's really more about what a small group of people have done to capitalism that's at the heart of it. Either someone will shake that class into a sea change sponsored by long term self-interest of socialism will one day, in some form, rule this roost.

That would be very unfortunate, in my opinion, but I believe your assessment is correct.

Grosnick Marowbe · Feb 21, 2018

jgarden said:
Given that in America, marking one's ballot occurs within the privacy of a polling booth, how can "intojoy" claim to know how any of these individuals voted - assuming that they voted at all?

The Republicans currently control the White House, the House and the Senate - name one constructive measure that has been taken after the Las Vegas shootings (58 dead, over 500 injured), that they have taken to protect the American people?

No other modern democracy experiences the same high rate of gun violence and mass shootings that currently exists in America!

Glad to see you on vacation, pal.

This is what emboldened white supremacists look like

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison

Town Heretic

Out of Order

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison

The Barbarian

BANNED

Town Heretic

Out of Order

intojoy

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jgarden

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intojoy

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intojoy

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jgarden

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intojoy

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The Barbarian

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intojoy

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The Barbarian

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Grosnick Marowbe

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