Was King James likely a homosexual?

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GregoryN

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"On the downside, King James was a raving homosexual. Sir Walter Raleigh joked about it, saying “King Elizabeth” had been succeeded by “Queen James.”

"His favorite lover was the Duke of Buckingham. Anyone who doubts this needs to read “King James and Letters of Homoerotic Desire” by David Bergeron. James’ tomb lies beside that of Buckingham in Westminster Abbey." https://www.kentucky.com/opinion/op-ed/article168984592.html

""Does the fact that he and Buckingham referred to each other as "husband" and "wife" weigh against this possibility, or was it possible at the time to use these terms to express strictly platonic affection?"

While most scholars are reluctant to comment on the debate, I would argue with Michael Young that James I did have sexual relationships with men. The idea of homosexuality/bisexuality did not exist in the seventeenth century, so the term does not really fit what he was doing. The sources on this would be:

Young, King James and the History of Homosexuality, (which just came out with a new edition)

Bergeron, King James and Letters of Homoerotic Desire (this is more of a literary study and is weaker than Young's, but it has the relevant primary texts as an appendix)

Akrigg, The Letters of James VI and I (The standard printed edition of James' letters)

Lockyer, Buckingham: The Life and Political Career of George Villiers is still the standard biography of Buckingham, but does not comment on his sexual relationship with James.

Overall it's impossible to prove whether James really had sex with Esme Stuart or George Villiers, Duke of Buckingham. However, his relationships with them was close enough to resemble intimate relationships between men and women. The most recent work that covers in depth the relationship between James and Buckingham refers to a "supposed" homosexual relationship (Cogswell & Bellany, Murder of King James I, p. 525).
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jamie

jamie

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GregoryN said:
On the downside, King James was a raving homosexual.
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So what?

"But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner — not even to eat with such a person." (1 Corinthians 5:11)
 
G

GregoryN

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ok doser said:
i can't imagine why anybody would care
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Another poster put me on ignore for, he says, slander of king James:


Rosenritter said:
Greg, until such a time as you are willing to retract your slander of "homosexuality" against King James (the man, not a translation) your credibility has been nullified.
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Rosenritter said:
If you cannot comprehend how irresponsible slander and accusation of the brethren is both dishonest and reprehensible before God, I have no interest in further discussion with you, You feel justified in making accusations without evidence? Truth doesn't matter? Good night then. No problem, there's a block button.
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G

Grosnick Marowbe

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GregoryN said:
"On the downside, King James was a raving homosexual. Sir Walter Raleigh joked about it, saying “King Elizabeth” had been succeeded by “Queen James.”

"His favorite lover was the Duke of Buckingham. Anyone who doubts this needs to read “King James and Letters of Homoerotic Desire” by David Bergeron. James’ tomb lies beside that of Buckingham in Westminster Abbey." https://www.kentucky.com/opinion/op-ed/article168984592.html

""Does the fact that he and Buckingham referred to each other as "husband" and "wife" weigh against this possibility, or was it possible at the time to use these terms to express strictly platonic affection?"
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Are you questioning the reliability of the King James Bible? What's your point?
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

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Hall of Fame
GregoryN said:
"On the downside, King James was a raving homosexual. Sir Walter Raleigh joked about it, saying “King Elizabeth” had been succeeded by “Queen James.”

"His favorite lover was the Duke of Buckingham. Anyone who doubts this needs to read “King James and Letters of Homoerotic Desire” by David Bergeron. James’ tomb lies beside that of Buckingham in Westminster Abbey." https://www.kentucky.com/opinion/op-ed/article168984592.html

""Does the fact that he and Buckingham referred to each other as "husband" and "wife" weigh against this possibility, or was it possible at the time to use these terms to express strictly platonic affection?"
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Do you have firsthand information backing up your accusation? What's the point you're trying to make?
 
Bee1

Bee1

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GregoryN said:
"On the downside, King James was a raving homosexual. Sir Walter Raleigh joked about it, saying “King Elizabeth” had been succeeded by “Queen James.”

"His favorite lover was the Duke of Buckingham. Anyone who doubts this needs to read “King James and Letters of Homoerotic Desire” by David Bergeron. James’ tomb lies beside that of Buckingham in Westminster Abbey." https://www.kentucky.com/opinion/op-ed/article168984592.html

""Does the fact that he and Buckingham referred to each other as "husband" and "wife" weigh against this possibility, or was it possible at the time to use these terms to express strictly platonic affection?"
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Homosexual or not, if it was not for King James there would not have been a translation of the Bible from Latin to English (which an assassination attempt was tried on his life) so that the common "English"man can read it for themselves instead of solely getting all info pertaining to religion from RCC. Good move don't you think? Imagine if that never came about.

Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
Do you have firsthand information backing up your accusation? What's the point you're trying to make?
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Greg has already been provided a rebuttal that made him out to be a false accuser and a liar. He seems to like to start flaming troll posts on different threads, but I suspect his real motivation was his hatred of the King James translation, seeing as he started this "homosexual accusation" when objecting to the its language because it was strongly anti-Universalist.

Spoiler
Gregory has a mission to persuade any and all that God will not destroy the wicked.


https://www.scionofzion.com/kj_real_story.html (excerpts, please read more)

KING JAMES OWN STATEMENTS ON HOMOSEXUALITY
King James book Basilicon Doron (the Kingly Gift) was written in 1599. It contained instructions to his son about how to properly carry out the responsibilities of the king. Included among his instructions is this statement: "there are some horrible crimes that ye are bound in conscience never to forgive: such as witchcraft, willful murder, incest and sodomv..."

In July of 1610 James was asked to pardon a number of criminals. He did pardon several on the list but refused to pardon those convicted of sodomy. He advised his son to stay away from "effeminate ones." James repeatedly referred to homosexuality as the "horrible crime!" These are indeed strange statements from someone given to homosexuality. James routinely listed homosexuality with witchcraft and murder just as the Bible does).

The King James Version translation of the Bible, which was sponsored by King James, does not in any way weaken the Biblical statements about homosexuality. Modem English translations like the RSV and the NIV weaken or delete Biblical statements condemning homosexuality. The King James Bible is clear in reflecting the Bibles' strong statements condemning homosexuality.

KING JAMES MARRIAGE AND MORAL TEACHING ABOUT MARRIAGE
King James was married to Anne of Denmark in 1589. They remained married until her death in 1619. King James's modern critics say that this means nothing since homosexual rulers have often maintained wives for public appearance's sake. However, King James spent much time with his wife (more than most monarchs), was openly affectionate to her in public and wrote her many love poems and sonnets. He greatly mourned her passing. More significantly James and Anne had eight children together.

The unmarried Puritan preacher John Rainolds questioned the use of the phrase "with my body I thee worship" in the standard English wedding ceremony. King James openly teased him about this. He said, "Many a man speaks of Robin Hood who never shot his bow; if you had a good wife yourself, you would think that all the honor and worship you could do her would be well bestowed." He then spoke of his queen as "our dearest bedfellow."

In 1603 James wrote the following to Anne:

"...I thank God I carry that love and respect unto you which, by the law of God and nature, I ought to do to my wife and mother of my children. . . For the respect of your honorable earth and descent I married you; but the love and respect I now bear you for that ye are my married wife and so partaker of my honour, as of all my other fortunes... Where ye were a king's or cook's daughter ye must be all alike to me being one my wife."

D.H. Wilson wrote the following about King James's love poems to his wife:
"He remained infatuated with his bride, whose praises he sang in sonnets and in other verse. Her beauty, he wrote, has caused his love,
'Long smoldering as fire hidden among coals, to burst into sudden blaze.' She inspires his verse, and her approbation spurs him to preserve, though government brings stormy cares. But she is a sweet physician who can soothe and cure his ills."

In fact, James did something almost unique for a royal monarch. He taught that the king should be a moral person, faithful to his wife and should set a moral example for his people. It was common for kings to have a number of mistresses. In France the king's mistress was considered an official member of the royal court. In fact the lack of mistresses in King James's Court is often used as proof that he was a homosexual. However a lack of mistresses is also a sign of a godly man leading a clean moral life.

James further writes:
"Marriage is one of the greatest actions that a man does all his time." "When you are married, keep inviolably your promise made to God in your marriage, which all stands in doing of one thing. And abstaining from another, to treat her in all things as your wife and the half of yourself, and to make your body (which then is no more yours but property hers) common with none other. I trust I need not to insist there to dissuade you from filthy vice of adultery remember only what solemn promise you made to God at your marriage." And for your behavior to your wife, the Scripture can best give you counsel therein. Treat her as your own flesh, command her as her lord, cherish her as your helper, rule her as your pupil, please her in all things reasonable, but teach her not to be curious in things that belong not to her. You are the head, she is your body, it is your office to command and hers to obey, but yet with such a sweet harmony as she should be as ready to obey as you to command, as willing to follow as you to go before, your love being wholly knit unto her, and all her affections lovingly bent to follow your will."
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

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ok doser said:
i can't imagine why you'd care that he put you on ignore :idunno:
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'Twas me. I have tolerated vast stupidity to stubborn misunderstanding, but false accusations is the spirit of the adversary, the devil. Greg wasn't willing to reconsider his words on evidence, so it seems he ran here to try to spread his tales.

Rev 12:10 KJV
(10) And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

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Bee1 said:
Homosexual or not, if it was not for King James there would not have been a translation of the Bible from Latin to English (which an assassination attempt was tried on his life) so that the common "English"man can read it for themselves instead of solely getting all info pertaining to religion from RCC. Good move don't you think? Imagine if that never came about.

Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk
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Wycliffe translated the bible from Latin to English hundreds of years previous. King James only authorized a better translation from the original tongues (Hebrew, Greek) than the Bishop's and Geneva's bibles through his position as monarch, but the original request was specifically brought to him by the Puritan leadership. He contributed personal funds towards a few of the translators salaries but otherwise was not involved in the actual translation. Somehow Greg thinks he has something to gain by attacking the monarch personally,
 
G

GregoryN

New member
Rosenritter said:
'Twas me. I have tolerated vast stupidity to stubborn misunderstanding, but false accusations is the spirit of the adversary, the devil. Greg wasn't willing to reconsider his words on evidence, so it seems he ran here to try to spread his tales.

Rev 12:10 KJV
(10) And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Click to expand...

"On the downside, King James was a raving homosexual. Sir Walter Raleigh joked about it, saying “King Elizabeth” had been succeeded by “Queen James.”

"His favorite lover was the Duke of Buckingham. Anyone who doubts this needs to read “King James and Letters of Homoerotic Desire” by David Bergeron. James’ tomb lies beside that of Buckingham in Westminster Abbey."

https://www.kentucky.com/opinion/op-ed/article168984592.html
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
Do you have firsthand information backing up your accusation? What's the point you're trying to make?
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https://www.scionofzion.com/kj_real_story.html

THE ORIGINS OF THE ATTACK ON KING JAMES

There is no record of anyone accusing King James of homosexual behavior during his lifetime. If you read most modern historians, you would believe that King James's homosexuality was open and widely recognized but this is far from the truth. There are absolutely no contemporary accounts alleging homosexuality on King James's part though there are contemporary accounts praising him for his moral virtue.

Sir Anthony Welden was an officer in the royal household of King James. He was knighted by King James in 1617. He was eventually dismissed from the royal court by King James. He vowed to get revenge!

He supported the anti-monarchy forces during the English Civil War. Twenty-five years after the death of King James, (one year after the execution of Charles I, King James's son) Welden made the first accusations of homosexuality against King James. His statements were widely rejected at the time because there were still too many living people who had known King James personally and who dismissed the allegations as ridiculous.

Disgruntled courtiers and political opponents picked up the allegations against King James and began to use innuendo to hurt his reputation. While not accusing him directly of homosexuality, they tried to create questions about his loyalties to his close friends and associates. These seventeenth century critics seem to fall into two groups. Some had their political and personal ambitions thwarted by King James. Others opposed his policy of uniting Scotland and England into one kingdom. All of these allegations come from people with a strong bias against James and they all were made a long time after his death.

Some historians began to repeat these attacks against King James without investigation. Soon vague allegations, rumor, innuendo and speculations were reported as historical fact. While some historians have sifted through the rumors to get the facts, many just repeated the statements of previous historians without any examination.


In the eighteenth century the primary reporters of King James's homosexuality, were those who opposed the union of Great Britain and also Roman Catholics who resented the support that James gave Protestants. In the twentieth century two different groups have clung to the allegations about King James and propagated them in defiance of the facts.

Homosexual activists have been determined to claim King James as one of their own. These are the same activists who claim that Abraham Lincoln, William Shakespeare, the Biblical King David and Jonathan and even Jesus Christ were really homosexuals. Historical facts means nothing to these people. They care only about their political and social agenda. It is a travesty when evangelicals quote their books as credible sources. The second group which refuses to be persuaded by the facts about King James are those who wish to use King James's supposed homosexuality to discredit the King James Bible.

In 1985, Moody Monthly magazine alerted the evangelical world to the allegations that King James was a homosexual. These charges came in an article entitled The Real King James by Karen Ann Wojahn. No evidence was provided. The article was accompanied by The Bible That Bears His Name by Leslie Keylock, This article was an attack on the King James Bible. Numerous attempts have been made to get Moody Monthly to either document or withdraw the charges made in these articles but fourteen years later neither has been done.

Despite the lack of evidence (and in spite of the evidence to the contrary) some evangelicals are quick to use the baseless accusations against King James to bolster their attacks on the King James Bible. But facts are contrary things! King James never claimed to be a homosexual. He was never accused of being one during his life time. No one ever claimed to see James in a homosexual situation. The accusations against him, past and present, stem from bias and not from fact. The character and record of King James clearly refutes the charges of homosexuality against King James.
 
G

GregoryN

New member
Rosenritter said:
Despite the lack of evidence (and in spite of the evidence to the contrary
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I wonder if your source has read this:

"On the downside, King James was a raving homosexual. Sir Walter Raleigh joked about it, saying “King Elizabeth” had been succeeded by “Queen James.”

"His favorite lover was the Duke of Buckingham. Anyone who doubts this needs to read “King James and Letters of Homoerotic Desire” by David Bergeron. James’ tomb lies beside that of Buckingham in Westminster Abbey."
 
George Affleck

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
GregoryN said:
I wonder if your source has read this:

"On the downside, King James was a raving homosexual. Sir Walter Raleigh joked about it, saying “King Elizabeth” had been succeeded by “Queen James.”

"His favorite lover was the Duke of Buckingham. Anyone who doubts this needs to read “King James and Letters of Homoerotic Desire” by David Bergeron. James’ tomb lies beside that of Buckingham in Westminster Abbey."
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Why be ignorant when you could be informed?

https://www.scionofzion.com/kj_real_story.html
 
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