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Thread: ARCHIVE: My niece is gay and I love her for it. So does God.

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    Over 500 post club OMEGA's Avatar
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    WICKWOMAN

    In this stressful era , it is hard to be a Christian.

    So, you have to forgive the rest of us if we are a

    little bit embittered at someone who takes the easy way out .

    Go your way . It is not your time yet to be judged .

    YOUR TURN WILL COME LATER !


    (1 Pet 4:17 KJV) "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"

    (1 Pet 4:18 KJV) "And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?"



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    Re: WICKWOMAN

    Originally posted by OMEGA
    In this stressful era , it is hard to be a Christian.

    So, you have to forgive the rest of us if we are a

    little bit embittered at someone who takes the easy way out .

    Go your way . It is not your time yet to be judged .

    YOUR TURN WILL COME LATER !


    (1 Pet 4:17 KJV) "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"

    (1 Pet 4:18 KJV) "And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?"


    I don’t know where you are from Omega but in the Bible belt where I’m from it easier to be a Christian than not. I just find it hard to believe it’s hard to be a Christian anywhere in America.

  3. #93
    Over 500 post club wickwoman's Avatar
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    Re: hell waits with longing arms for dear wickedwoman....

    Originally posted by Lion
    wickedwoman-you saidReally, well the wicked are blind, so I guess that would make sense. Let’s see, how many homos die every year from aids?
    The disease kill people every year - not the homosexuals. Our ultra conservative government doesn't think the lives of homosexuals are important enough to devote the kind of money needed to find a cure.

    I still haven't found out why you think pedophilia doesn't hurt anyone.

    You seem to have elevated yourself to quite a high place. You get to decide who dies, who goes to Hell. Interesting. It must be quite an awesome responsibility, being judge of humanity.
    "When I do good I feel good. When I do bad I feel bad. That's my religion."
    -Abraham Lincoln

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    Over 500 post club wickwoman's Avatar
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    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Lev 20:13 ‘If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    That's funny, I never realized Jesus wrote the book of Leviticus. I was thinking it was Moses. Silly me.

    You always have something intelligent to say. Do you get all of your words from the Bible? If you're not using your brain, you could donate it to science. It would make for very interesting studies.
    "When I do good I feel good. When I do bad I feel bad. That's my religion."
    -Abraham Lincoln

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    Over 500 post club wickwoman's Avatar
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    Re: Re: WICKWOMAN

    Originally posted by Hank


    I don’t know where you are from Omega but in the Bible belt where I’m from it easier to be a Christian than not. I just find it hard to believe it’s hard to be a Christian anywhere in America.
    Dear Hank:

    I agree wholeheartedly. I have experienced more stress in my life since I decided to begin figuring things out for myself. It's very easy to accept the religion we were spoon fed as children in Sunday school. It's another matter altogether to actually set out to discover if that religion holds water.
    "When I do good I feel good. When I do bad I feel bad. That's my religion."
    -Abraham Lincoln

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    Over 500 post club wickwoman's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Straying from Christianity

    Originally posted by Freak


    When did you start calling God he/she?
    Dear Freak:

    Is that all you've got?
    "When I do good I feel good. When I do bad I feel bad. That's my religion."
    -Abraham Lincoln

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    Over 500 post club wickwoman's Avatar
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    Dear Lion and Sozo:

    Just fresh from church this Sunday evening and you've got so many wonderful and loving things to say. You know, if you keep talking so sweet to me I might start to like you!

    Nothing like a scathing message from a red faced, fried chicken eating, preacher to fill us all with righteous indignation. What was the preacher's message yesterday: judge thy neighbor? Well it looks like your week is off to a great start. KEEP SPREADING THE LOVE!!
    "When I do good I feel good. When I do bad I feel bad. That's my religion."
    -Abraham Lincoln

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    Lion, its worth pointing out that quoting scriptural rhetoric to people who don't take the bible literally or as the final word for morality is pointless. Also, don't you think it is possible that social factors, in part created by people like yourself, rather than homosexuality in generally, (which doesn't have those problems in more accepting cultutres, except AIDS), cause all those issues?
    Probably not.

    And OMEGA, it is defintely easier to be a christian in the US.

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    Journeyman o2bwise's Avatar
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    Post The Law

    Hello Poly,

    I was going to get to this sooner or later.
    Oh let me guess. By saying weightier matters you must be refering to the idea that Jesus was embarrassed by what His Father the mean old tyrant, said in the law so He came to change it around bit while He was here.
    Um yeah, that’s a pretty good guess!

    I would hazard to guess that Mr. Enyart’s church has some biblical explanation for how Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery. Regardless, the following is my understanding of that event.

    The Pharisees catch a woman caught in adultery. The law is CLEAR. She is to be stoned to death. The Pharisees seem ready to pick up stones and do just that, however, Jesus prompted something quite different. The woman was not stoned.

    Or was she?

    It is written that Jesus is the Chief cornerstone and he who falls on the rock is broken in pieces. He on whom the rock falls is crushed. That woman was stoned, her heart was broken in a zillion pieces, and she “died” and “rose again” to live life anew.

    So, Poly, just WHAT law are you referring to?

    Those laws are there, but is it possible that their rendering is person-dependent? Is it possible there is a plurality of ways to understand those laws? A plurality that is a function of the degree to which one grows in a knowledge of God?

    Two thousand years ago, a bunch of clergymen plotted the crucifixion of the Son of God. At the very same time, they were obedient to all the details of the law as they performed the Passover service. And why not? Atonement is made by animal blood, says their holy book – over and over again. And no one is to drink of the blood. This alleged Messiah insisted one must drink His blood or one does not have life.

    Heretic!

    This is a case in point where an understanding of “law” was undergoing a bit of a shift. No more animal blood. It’s cool to drink Christ’s blood (in some sense – I believe it is a metaphor).

    I suggest that the law of which you refer has some of the same attributes. Like the stoning law. Sure, you can see it through the lens of a Jew walking this earth 2300 years ago, but you can also see it through the lens that is the life of Christ as well as His observance of that law, such as when that woman was caught in adultery.

    The day will come when to have a view of “the law” that you have will be tantamount to strictly following the Passover feast, in all its details. All the while Christ, in a sense, is crucified anew. This time by the misrepresentation of His character – which you most surely have done. And continue to do every time you misrepresent him with your deeply impersonal and succinct replies, not even bothering to address alleged brothers in Christ by their name.

    There is a coldness of heart that feels like an arctic chill. Yeah, I meant weightier matters and you can BANK on that.

    You wrote, in another post:
    Homosexuals sicken me as God expects that they should.
    I am not sure that homosexuals sicken God (while I am sure that their homosexual acts certainly do).

    Regardless,

    God first loved us. Christ asked forgiveness for the folks who nailed Him to the cross. He loves us in our sin. We may end up lost, but still He loves us.

    Tony (o2)
    Founder of "Iconoclasts Anonymous" Recovery Groups

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    Over 750 post club Goose's Avatar
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    My cousins are all homophobic and I love them for it. And so does God.
    Last edited by Goose; March 3rd, 2003 at 12:05 PM.

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    Just livin' life one day at a time. Poly's Avatar
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    Re: The Law

    Originally posted by o2bwise
    He loves us in our sin. We may end up lost, but still He loves us.

    Tony (o2)
    Will He love the lost when they are in hell?
    "The most terrifying words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" - Ronald Reagan



    Check out the "rightest" of all right wing moms. FarRightMom


    Upgrade your TOL membership.

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    Re: Re: Re: Straying from Christianity

    Originally posted by wickwoman


    Dear Freak:

    Is that all you've got?
    Well, I guess we are trying to figure your bizarre ideas out. It's not normal to call God a she. I have traveled to nearly 30 countries of this world and have yet come by someone who calls God a "she"--quite strange.
    Jesus Loves You

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    Rookie calvinistkid's Avatar
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    Just wondering... is there a single debate/discussion thread on this site that HASN'T turned into a name-calling free-for-all after the first few pages? Are there even two people on this site who are able to discuss a controversial topic without resorting to ad hominem arguments, and more importantly, able to ignore the ones that ARE used. I mean, honestly, does namecalling even deserve to be recognised and responded to, or should we ignore it during the course of the discussion and rebuke it later, like a discontent two year old tugging on his mother's pant leg while she is trying to talk to a friend?
    Taken from a poem entiled "Smoking Spiritualized"
    THIS Indian weed now wither'd quite,
    Tho' green at noon, cut down at night,
    Shows thy decay;
    All flesh is hay.
    Thus think, and smoke tobacco.

    The smoke, like burning incense, tow'rs;
    So should a praying heart of yours,
    With ardent cries,
    Surmount the skies.
    Thus think, and smoke tobacco.

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    By CK

    Just wondering... is there a single debate/discussion thread on this site that HASN'T turned into a name-calling free-for-all after the first few pages? Are there even two people on this site who are able to discuss a controversial topic without resorting to ad hominem arguments, and more importantly, able to ignore the ones that ARE used. I mean, honestly, does namecalling even deserve to be recognised and responded to, or should we ignore it during the course of the discussion and rebuke it later, like a discontent two year old tugging on his mother's pant leg while she is trying to talk to a friend?
    When I first started posting here it kind of hurt my feelings when someone called me a name. I thought they were being un-Christian and I thought I was just trying to debate the subject in a rational way. But over time, I realized it was a sure sign that someone had no logical reply and had conceded the point. Also it’s a good opening to insert a little humor. And I have a great sense of humor.

    However that being said I do understand your point about every thread turning into a name-calling contest and agree with you on that.

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    Journeyman o2bwise's Avatar
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    Exclamation On "Hell"

    Hello Poly,

    If you grabbed a Greek Old Testament (Septuagint or LXX), you would realize that the Greek words aion and aionios need not mean of eternal time duration. Once that is realized, it follows that the mere presence of those words, in a text of scripture, does not lend any more weight with respect to referring to eternal time duration versus temporal time duration.

    Of the eternal fires:

    Isaiah 33:14-15
    14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; Fearfulness has seized the hypocrites: "Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?" 15 He who walks righteously and speaks uprightly, He who despises the gain of oppressions, Who gestures with his hands, refusing bribes, Who stops his ears from hearing of bloodshed, And shuts his eyes from seeing evil:


    It is the righteous who dwell in the eternal fires.

    And just what are the eternal fires? What is the unquenchable fire, that cannot be put out?

    Song of Solomon 8:6-8
    6 The Shulamite to Her Beloved Set me as a seal upon your heart, As a seal upon your arm; For love is as strong as death, Jealousy as cruel as the grave; Its flames are flames of fire, A most vehement flame. 7 Many waters cannot quench love, Nor can the floods drown it. If a man would give for love All the wealth of his house, It would be utterly despised.


    What a contrast! You ask if God will love the lost when in “hell” while the Bible states that the eternal fires ARE love!

    As the parable of the two houses demonstrates, the same storm that causes one house to be destroyed, is endured by the other. This storm is an unveiled revelation of the love of God. For it is His goodness that reveals our character.

    Isaiah 33:17-18b
    17 Your eyes will see the King in His beauty; They will see the land that is very far off. 18 Your heart will meditate on terror:

    Isaiah 28:17-20
    17 Also I will make justice the measuring line, And righteousness the plummet; The hail will sweep away the refuge of lies, And the waters will overflow the hiding place. 18 Your covenant with death will be annulled, And your agreement with Sheol will not stand; When the overflowing scourge passes through, Then you will be trampled down by it. 19 As often as it goes out it will take you; For morning by morning it will pass over, And by day and by night; It will be a terror just to understand the report." 20 For the bed is too short to stretch out on, And the covering so narrow that one cannot wrap himself in it.


    The report is an unveiled revelation of our sin-sick souls. The house built on the rock is as the spiritual man in James. All people who are of this house, in the last days, receive the storm progressively and are purified by it.

    James 1:23-25
    23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

    Psalm 12:6
    The words of the Lord are pure words, Like silver tried in a furnace of earth, Purified seven times.


    There is the unveiling – seven times. And there is the furnace. For one group, it enables chastening, cleansing and for another, it is their final destruction (Daniel 3 is a nice parallel to this, in the physical realm).

    Matthew 13:40-43
    40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!


    Note the parallels. Furnace. Fire. Note the righteous shine forth as the sun (boy, that is pretty fiery!). Jesus exhorts, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!” While most sit on the surface of the word and thus, understand less God’s lovely character.

    Whether the object lesson be storm, furnace, water, sword, birth pangs, cup, or whatever, the illustrations are similar. Two groups are exposed to the same thing.

    One is destroyed and one is perfectly cleansed.

    The lost are destroyed by a full revelation of love because they see too much of their sinfulness in too short a time frame. They “pull a Judas” and the pain comes from their own burning psyche, just as with Judas.

    Why does God do this? Does He relish the sufferings of the lost? No!

    He must vindicate His justice before the universe. When the righteous are prepared to survive the storm, He allows them to be subjected to it. They feel to be altogether sinful, but they survive because they are righteous. The lost are destroyed by the very same revelation. They feel no more sinful. But, lacking righteousness, their response is despair.

    This twinfold revelation proves:
    1. Salvation is innate to righteousness itself.
    2. Condemnation is innate to sinfulness.
    3. The same load that crushes the lost can be endured by the righteous.

    God cannot bear false witness. The universe sees how good righteousness is and how bad sin is and the revelation is so intense that while free will is not denied them, no one will ever choose sin again. The universe is eternally safeguarded from sin.


    Poly, in a book I read, the author wrote that people cannot rise above their conceptions of Deity. I now know partially why you are as obviously cold-hearted as you are. You have assigned attributes to God that are satanic – and you do not rise above your misunderstood conception of the Lord.

    God Bless,

    Tony (o2)
    Founder of "Iconoclasts Anonymous" Recovery Groups

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