Paul: "The Just (Justified) Shall Live By Faith" and not by rules, laws or religion

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Robert Pate

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clefty said:
Wrong.

Here it is:

Matt 19:17...But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’[d] and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth.[f] What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”


I bolded it for you...

Did you read His answer as “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ”? Or “keep the commandments”? Remember, I bolded it for your easy readying pleasure.


Did you read His answer as “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ”? Or “follow me”...again its bolded for you...


Now when we follow someone we DO something yes? We go where they go do what they do live as they do...

Do you really think if that rich young ruler would have followed Him HIS WAY his life would be as it was before? Do you really think he would be led into eating Ham dinners after church on Sunday?

“Follow me” the rich young ruler would realize is keeping the Law...is living the faith OF Yahushua...
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The rich young ruler was a liar and a hypocrite.

Do you really believe that he kept all of the commandments from the time he was a youth?

He would not confess that he was a sinner so Jesus gave him more law.

"Go sell all that you have and come and follow me".

Jesus had trapped the lying hypocrite.
 
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clefty

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Robert Pate said:
The rich young ruler was a liar and a hypocrite.
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and yet His answer was the same...if you want to enter into life KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS...

Do you really believe that he kept all of the commandments from the time he was a youth?
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Sure...and those he didnt he confessed and made right and he was restored his faith accounted to him as righteousness also as per law...

He would not confess that he was a sinner so Jesus gave him more law.
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exactly wrong...keeping the Law does not mean you are perfect who is good but Yah?...

I mean where I to ask have you kept the dont kill law...many people havent killed anyone...but He amplified it...now even Buddhists have no angry thoughts or hate filled hearts but is that enough? Nope...its about following Him

"Go sell all that you have and come and follow me".

Jesus had trapped the lying hypocrite.
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nope just reminded him “rather mercy than sacrifice”...the shadows were pointing to Him...He was the goal of the Law...with Yah all things are possible...except of course breaking His Law or going against His will unrepentedly...(this last bit is hopefully understood and thus not even necessarily stated but considering how things are twisted around here...)
 
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Robert Pate

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clefty said:
and yet His answer was the same...if you want to enter into life KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS...

Sure...and those he didnt he confessed and made right and he was restored his faith accounted to him as righteousness also as per law...

exactly wrong...keeping the Law does not mean you are perfect who is good but Yah?...

I mean where I to ask have you kept the dont kill law...many people havent killed anyone...but He amplified it...now even Buddhists have no angry thoughts or hate filled hearts but is that enough? Nope...its about following Him

nope just reminded him “rather mercy than sacrifice”...the shadows were pointing to Him...He was the goal of the Law...with Yah all things are possible...except of course breaking His Law or going against His will unrepentedly...(this last bit is hopefully understood and thus not even necessarily stated but considering how things are twisted around here...)
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When Jesus told the Rich Young Ruler that if he wanted to enter into eternal life he should keep the commandments. Then he should have answered Jesus like the disciples did when they said, "Who then can be saved?" No one can keep the commandments except Jesus.

Are you willing to sell all that you have and give it to the poor? No, you are not going to do that. Are you willing to give to those that ask of you? No, you are not going to do that. The law will make you a hypocrite just like the Pharisees.
 
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clefty

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Robert Pate said:
When Jesus told the Rich Young Ruler that if he wanted to enter into eternal life he should keep the commandments. Then he should have answered Jesus like the disciples did when they said, "Who then can be saved?" No one can keep the commandments except Jesus.
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the disciples did not ask “who then can be saved?” after hearing the commandments need be kept...they answered “who then can be saved?” after hearing it was hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven, yes a camel could go through an eye of the needle more easily than a rich man to enter the kingdom...

And still it was expected...As with Him it is possible...to sell all and to keep all...

Are you willing to sell all that you have and give it to the poor? No, you are not going to do that.
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not even Zacchaeus fulfilled that and yet salvation came into his house...

Are you willing to give to those that ask of you? No, you are not going to do that.
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sure I am as I give to myself (not everything I want all the time) and as He gives to me (not everything and all the time)

The law will make you a hypocrite just like the Pharisees.
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Pharisees were not hypocritical for failing to keep the law...they where hypocritical for teaching law they did not keep...laws they made themselves...

If I fail I am not a hypocrite or an unrepentant sinner...I am still on the team...just like if I were to strike out while wearing the baseball uniform...I am not a hypocrite for failing to hit the ball after saying I am keeping the rules of baseball...I am a hypocrite if I say I play baseball and then dont keep the rules and make up new ones to benefit me like claiming I only have to run only two bases instead of three...

Ha do you even like baseball? Lots of rules there...maybe those dont apply to you either...ha

Will work out a better analogy for you...
 
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Robert Pate

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clefty said:
the disciples did not ask “who then can be saved?” after hearing the commandments need be kept...they answered “who then can be saved?” after hearing it was hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven, yes a camel could go through an eye of the needle more easily than a rich man to enter the kingdom...

And still it was expected...As with Him it is possible...to sell all and to keep all...

not even Zacchaeus fulfilled that and yet salvation came into his house...

sure I am as I give to myself (not everything I want all the time) and as He gives to me (not everything and all the time)

Pharisees were not hypocritical for failing to keep the law...they where hypocritical for teaching law they did not keep...laws they made themselves...

If I fail I am not a hypocrite or an unrepentant sinner...I am still on the team...just like if I were to strike out while wearing the baseball uniform...I am not a hypocrite for failing to hit the ball after saying I am keeping the rules of baseball...I am a hypocrite if I say I play baseball and then dont keep the rules and make up new ones to benefit me like claiming I only have to run only two bases instead of three...

Ha do you even like baseball? Lots of rules there...maybe those dont apply to you either...ha

Will work out a better analogy for you...
Click to expand...


You are going against the teachings of the apostle Paul. Paul never encouraged anyone to live by the law, but he did encourage Christians to live by the Spirit.

The purpose of the law is to convict you of your sins so that you will come to Christ, Galatians 3:24. After you have come to Christ you are no longer required to live by the law, Galatians 3:25.

This is why Paul said that "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17 and not by laws, rules and religion. Living by the Spirit is living by the Gospel. In the Gospel we are Complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. We cannot make ourselves any better than what God has made us in Jesus Christ.

You are not resting and trusting in Christ, Hebrews 4:10. You are trying to make yourself acceptable to God through the works of the law. The law is going to bring judgment and condemnation on you.
 
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clefty

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Robert Pate said:
You are going against the teachings of the apostle Paul. Paul never encouraged anyone to live by the law, but he did encourage Christians to live by the Spirit.

The purpose of the law is to convict you of your sins so that you will come to Christ, Galatians 3:24. After you have come to Christ you are no longer required to live by the law, Galatians 3:25.

This is why Paul said that "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17 and not by laws, rules and religion. Living by the Spirit is living by the Gospel. In the Gospel we are Complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. We cannot make ourselves any better than what God has made us in Jesus Christ.

You are not resting and trusting in Christ, Hebrews 4:10. You are trying to make yourself acceptable to God through the works of the law. The law is going to bring judgment and condemnation on you.
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Oh wow...not this again...

I was accepted and thus in gratitude wish to keep the Law...The Spirit helps me do that...not to be saved...BUT BECAUSE I AM...

You really cant comprehend or retain that can you...
 
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Robert Pate

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clefty said:
Oh wow...not this again...

I was accepted and thus in gratitude wish to keep the Law...The Spirit helps me do that...not to be saved...BUT BECAUSE I AM...

You really cant comprehend or retain that can you...
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You were accepted only in Christ. We show our gratitude by resting and trusting in Christ, Hebrews 4:10.

You cannot keep the law because you are a sinner. Trying to keep the law will make you a hypocrite. The law demands perfection. You don't have it to offer. Paul never encouraged anyone to live by laws, rules or religion.
 
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clefty

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Robert Pate said:
You were accepted only in Christ. We show our gratitude by resting and trusting in Christ, Hebrews 4:10.
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if He is resting you as you think He is you are not saved

You cannot keep the law because you are a sinner. Trying to keep the law will make you a hypocrite. The law demands perfection. You don't have it to offer. Paul never encouraged anyone to live by laws, rules or religion.
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LOL...He even encouraged the gentiles to return the next Sabbath to hear more...

To enter the rest He did when He finished His work that first creation week...JUST AS HE DID...
 
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Robert Pate

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clefty said:
if He is resting you as you think He is you are not saved

LOL...He even encouraged the gentiles to return the next Sabbath to hear more...

To enter the rest He did when He finished His work that first creation week...JUST AS HE DID...
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Your whole problem is that you don't believe the Gospel. You don't believe that Jesus fulfilled the law and then abolished it. That means that there is nothing for you to do but to believe and live by faith. You just can't believe that you are Complete in Christ, Galatians 2:10. In my book you are a religious unbeliever.
 
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clefty

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Robert Pate said:
Your whole problem is that you don't believe the Gospel. You don't believe that Jesus fulfilled the law and then abolished it. That means that there is nothing for you to do but to believe and live by faith. You just can't believe that you are Complete in Christ, Galatians 2:10. In my book you are a religious unbeliever.
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Galatians 2:10?...now you are being lazy AND sloppy...please put the Sword down...

Gal 6: 9-10 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good toall, especially to those who are of the household of faith. Except you Robert...your desire for lawlessness disqualifies you...


Gal 6:13 FOR NOT EVEN THOSE WHO ARE CIRCUMCISED KEEP THE LAW...did they live by faith then? Why does it matter that they not even keep the law...if its by faith?

Paul concludes “as many as WALK (NOT BELIEVE) according to this rule”...

Pity you are not walking...
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
clefty said:
Galatians 2:10?...now you are being lazy AND sloppy...please put the Sword down...

Gal 6: 9-10 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good toall, especially to those who are of the household of faith. Except you Robert...your desire for lawlessness disqualifies you...


Gal 6:13 FOR NOT EVEN THOSE WHO ARE CIRCUMCISED KEEP THE LAW...did they live by faith then? Why does it matter that they not even keep the law...if its by faith?

Paul concludes “as many as WALK (NOT BELIEVE) according to this rule”...

Pity you are not walking...
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According to the Gospel God sees me "In Christ". If I am spiritually "In Christ", then I cannot do lawlessness. I am perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. Like I said before, you don't believe the Gospel. If you did you would not be concerned about your righteousness, which you don't have anyway, Romans 3:10.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
You are going against the teachings of the apostle Paul. Paul never encouraged anyone to live by the law, but he did encourage Christians to live by the Spirit.

The purpose of the law is to convict you of your sins so that you will come to Christ, Galatians 3:24. After you have come to Christ you are no longer required to live by the law, Galatians 3:25.

This is why Paul said that "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17 and not by laws, rules and religion. Living by the Spirit is living by the Gospel. In the Gospel we are Complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. We cannot make ourselves any better than what God has made us in Jesus Christ.

You are not resting and trusting in Christ, Hebrews 4:10. You are trying to make yourself acceptable to God through the works of the law. The law is going to bring judgment and condemnation on you.
Click to expand...

You not trusting in Christ when you teach sinners He died for are still lost.
 
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clefty

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Robert Pate said:
According to the Gospel God sees me "In Christ". If I am spiritually "In Christ", then I cannot do lawlessness.I am perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.
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because in Him you do as He did...JUST AS...and if you dont well...

Like I said before, you don't believe the Gospel. If you did you would not be concerned about your righteousness, which you don't have anyway, Romans 3:10.
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saved first then works...faith without works is dead
 
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