The Wrath of God

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clefty

New member
God's Truth said:
God says it is clean if you are thankful.
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He did?

Do you want people to starve to death?
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wut? STARVE?! You will starve without your ham sandwich? LOL

Some people were jailed tortured burned etc because they refused to compromise...

But you gotta have a ham sandwich...

We gonna eat meat at all in the new earth?

Thought this “rather mercy than sacrifice” was to get us ready to be there with Him live as He intended before we sinned...tasted ham lol
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
clefty said:
Awww thanks...even in bold and big letters...

Must have been why He had to do it not 1, 2, but 3 times...

And still peter refused...

And did NOT interpret it as you wish


BTW-Peter was with Him when He supposedly made all meat clean and still he refused
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There are no laws and rules for the Christian. Simply because "The Just Shall Live By Faith" and not by rules, laws or religion. You don't have the courage to live by faith. Your security blanket is the law. You are resting in the law, when you should be resting in Christ, Hebrews 4:10. You will be judged by the law and most likely condemned.
 
C

clefty

New member
God's Truth said:
You are proving to be unreasonable.
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you mean unswayed...

That is too bad.
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not for me...

Are you willing to say anything to protect your false beliefs?
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anything?

Do you even know what being unclean means?

Many things made one unclean and each had provision by which you made yourself clean again...no big deal...typically people wanted to be clean so they would happily do what was necessary for that...

Did you know some uncleanliness was cancelled by merely the sun setting...nothing you did but it was done for you...sound familiar?

They have a saying that the 10 commandments are the 10 words or sayings...I see them as descriptions of what it is like where He is...where He is there is no killing-no need, stealing-no need, adultury-no desire to, etc...so that is what it is like there...best to try and get used to it here...lol

On earth AS it is in heaven...

The first four of the ten are about Who He is and How we worship Him—-love Yah with ALL

The following six are how we love others...

Only the last is about how we love ourselves...coveting only hurts us

There was only one Law regarding how to love ourselves...these other laws of cleanliness and sacrifice were given to help us discipline ourselves...practice good...make habit of it...these exercises strengthen our ability to say Yes to that which is clean and NO to that which is unclean...it builds character and reason...and bares witness to which side we are on in this game of life...

Feel toxic? Fast...feel dirty? wash up...wish to be healthy? Follow the Creators owner’s manual...

To simplify... if He didnt do it while human...why should we?

We gonna eat Ham sandwiches in paradise are we?
 
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C

clefty

New member
God's Truth said:
What you say here is much confusion.

Robert Pate is wrong, but so are you.
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Again...Peter refused to eat the unclean and clearly understood the vision was about the gentiles not Ham sandwiches...repeated his lesson that it was about the gospel to all nations multiple time again even in Chapter...

Peter had been with Him when He supposedly made all things clean...and here he is still claiming not to have eaten anything unclean...

Not confusing at all...
 
C

clefty

New member
Robert Pate said:
There are no laws and rules for the Christian. Simply because "The Just Shall Live By Faith" and not by rules, laws or religion. You don't have the courage to live by faith. Your security blanket is the law. You are resting in the law, when you should be resting in Christ, Hebrews 4:10. You will be judged by the law and most likely condemned.
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Please speak more on your conversion your repentance...the very word means change...but I guess you didnt need to...

You claim you still get to do all the things you used to do before...



If the Law could change why wasn’t it before He sacrificed His Son?
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
clefty said:
Please speak more on your conversion your repentance...the very word means change...but I guess you didnt need to...

You claim you still get to do all the things you used to do before...



If the Law could change why wasn’t it before He sacrificed His Son?
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Now you are making false accusations. Very unchristian. I told you that the change in my life was dramatic after I became a Christian. Not because of the law, but because of the Holy Spirit.
 
C

clefty

New member
Robert Pate said:
Now you are making false accusations. Very unchristian. I told you that the change in my life was dramatic after I became a Christian. Not because of the law, but because of the Holy Spirit.
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Why so dramatic? You have desperately insisted for pages now there is nothing expected of the christain...just claim “I am in Christ”...

The trauma occurs because the Spirit guides you away from what you once were and from what you once did...and into the path of His faith...His way...and into His Father’s will...which is obedience to Him His Law...

You are in Him and His Father’s kingdom...by the law of adoption
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
clefty said:
Why so dramatic? You have desperately insisted for pages now there is nothing expected of the christain...just claim “I am in Christ”...

The trauma occurs because the Spirit guides you away from what you once were and from what you once did...and into the path of His faith...His way...and into His Father’s will...which is obedience to Him His Law...

You are in Him and His Father’s kingdom...by the law of adoption
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I was adopted when I accepted Christ as my savior. There was no law, it was a natural occurrence.

Salvation always has been and always will be by grace through faith apart from the works of the law.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
clefty said:
Again...Peter refused to eat the unclean and clearly understood the vision was about the gentiles not Ham sandwiches...repeated his lesson that it was about the gospel to all nations multiple time again even in Chapter...

Peter had been with Him when He supposedly made all things clean...and here he is still claiming not to have eaten anything unclean...

Not confusing at all...
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Acts 10:14“No, Lord!” Peter answered, “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.” 15The voice spoke to him a second time: “Do not call anything impure” that God has made clean.

Matthew 15:11
A man is not defiled by what enters his mouth, but by what comes out of it."

Mark 7:19
because it does not enter his heart, but it goes into his stomach and then is eliminated." (Thus all foods are clean.)

Romans 14:14
I am convinced and fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean.

Romans 14:20
Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to let his eating be a stumbling block.

1 Corinthians 10:25
Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience,

1 Timothy 4:4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,

Romans 14:6
Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God;

1 Corinthians 10:30
If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?

1 Timothy 4:4
For every creation of God is good, and nothing that is received with thanksgiving should be rejected,

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
clefty said:
He did?
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He did:

1 Corinthians 10:30
If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?

1 Timothy 4:4
For every creation of God is good, and nothing that is received with thanksgiving should be rejected,


clefty said:
wut? STARVE?! You will starve without your ham sandwich? LOL
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Do you think the poor in Thailand who are eating shrimp are going to Hell for eating shrimp?
clefty said:
Some people were jailed tortured burned etc because they refused to compromise...

But you gotta have a ham sandwich...

We gonna eat meat at all in the new earth?

Thought this “rather mercy than sacrifice” was to get us ready to be there with Him live as He intended before we sinned...tasted ham lol
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Is it mercy to send people to Hell for eating shrimp?
 
C

clefty

New member
Robert Pate said:
I was adopted when I accepted Christ as my savior. There was no law, it was a natural occurrence.
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there was Law to seperate you and there is Law to bind you back in...is why they are called covenants...not occurrences...certainly not natural

Salvation always has been and always will be by grace through faith apart from the works of the law.
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EXACTLY and is why OUT OF GRATITUDE we wish WANT to be more like Him less like our former selves...
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
clefty said:
there was Law to seperate you and there is Law to bind you back in...is why they are called covenants...not occurrences...certainly not natural

EXACTLY and is why OUT OF GRATITUDE we wish WANT to be more like Him less like our former selves...
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No. Salvation has not ever been about not having to obey. That is ludicrous.
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Nobody wants to talk about the wrath of God. God has emotions, just like us. When he gets mad he exhibits his wrath. If it wasn't for his Son Jesus Christ he would have wrapped up this whole universe in one big ball of fire when Adam sinned. Thankfully, God knew that Adam was going to sin and that Jesus would atone for his sin and the sins of the whole world before the foundation of the world, Revelation 13:8.

For now, God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. Those that are "In Christ" will not experience God's wrath, but those that are not "In Christ" will in the judgment.

"He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that does not believe on the Son shall not see life; BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDES ON HIM" John 3:36.

Paul said that the wrath of God would come upon the "Children of disobedience" Ephesians 5:6 also Colossians 3:6 and then he said that the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, WHO HOLD THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, Romans 1:18. That would include all of the cults and all religions that have not obeyed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, Romans 10:16. To obey the Gospel means to cease from your own works or religion and to rest or trust in the work of Christ for your salvation.

"For we which do believe have entered into HIS REST, as he has said, As I have sworn in my wrath, IF THEY SHALL NOT ENTER INTO MY REST: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world" Hebrews 4:3.

This scripture also pertains to the Israelites that were disobedient in the wilderness and would not enter into the promised land because of unbelief and disobedience, Hebrews 3:10. What it amounts to is do you believe God? God sends Jesus into the world to be our savior. All that Jesus is and all that Jesus does is for our justification and our salvation. By faith in him and in his Gospel we have eternal life, John 3:16. Do you believe God? If you believe God, then it is the Gospel plus nothing. If it is the Gospel plus something, then it is no longer the Gospel and you have not entered into his rest.
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God is love. God is light and in him is no darkness at all.

God is spirit not flesh.

Men bring about their own destruction when they throw themselves against the immutable laws of God.

If person decides that gravity is a law that they are going to break then jumps off the edge of the Grand Canyon.

What is going to break?

God's law?

Or

That person's body?
 
C

clefty

New member
oatmeal said:
God is love. God is light and in him is no darkness at all.

God is spirit not flesh.

Men bring about their own destruction when they throw themselves against the immutable laws of God.

If person decides that gravity is a law that they are going to break then jumps off the edge of the Grand Canyon.

What is going to break?

God's law?

Or

That person's body?
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Indeed.

I am fond of saying I dont keep the law it keeps me...close to Him...far from what I was...


Yes a decision to jump reveals the heart.

As does a decision to walk as closely as possible to the edge...

And if a brother warns you to step back there begins a conflict between what I want or what this brother is saying...

Now if I happen to be too close to the edge on accident or unawares...I am more likely grateful for the warning...

So it is in the christian walk...

Some of course enjoy the thrill of “on the edge” or actually going over the edge and falling...they merely call it “flying”...and free from law...as if the Spirit led them there...

Happily even here if you rather call it a mistake on your part and realize you were in error to cross that edge you by grace land not on ground but on Him...

And in gratitude you wish want endeavor never to jump over the edge of the Grand Canyon again...perhaps even move from Arizona
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
clefty said:
Indeed.

I am fond of saying I dont keep the law it keeps me...close to Him...far from what I was...


Yes a decision to jump reveals the heart.

As does a decision to walk as closely as possible to the edge...

And if a brother warns you to step back there begins a conflict between what I want or what this brother is saying...

Now if I happen to be too close to the edge on accident or unawares...I am more likely grateful for the warning...

So it is in the christian walk...

Some of course enjoy the thrill of “on the edge” or actually going over the edge and falling...they merely call it “flying”...and free from law...as if the Spirit led them there...

Happily even here if you rather call it a mistake on your part and realize you were in error to cross that edge you by grace land not on ground but on Him...

And in gratitude you wish want endeavor never to jump over the edge of the Grand Canyon again...perhaps even move from Arizona
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Paul said, "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight. FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN" Romans 3:20.

You have turned this scripture around. You think that by the deeds of the law you will be justified. You also think that by the deeds of the law you are righteous.
 
C

clefty

New member
Robert Pate said:
Paul said, "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight. FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN" Romans 3:20.

You have turned this scripture around. You think that by the deeds of the law you will be justified. You also think that by the deeds of the law you are righteous.
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Really? Are you serious? I have wasted too much time on you. SHOW ME WHERE I POST THAT

Here it is again...BECAUSE of what was done for me I want to keep the Law...I was saved then works out of gratitude just as it was in the OT...the just live by faith...

My works to receive righteousness are filthy rags...

What did Adam do to be created? Nothing...What did you do to be conceived? NOTHING...all you did was accept you were conceived and were born and I assume now wish to do what you can to stay alive...

Same in the faith walk...it was done for us and we must merely recognize it was and in gratitude OBEY...

It was always faith first...

Noah believed FIRST and then worked on the ark

Abraham had faith FIRST and then obeyed

Israel agreed they needed passing over...thus killed the lamb...

THEY WERE SAVED BEFORE THE 10 COMMANDMENTS WERE REVEALED TO THEM...

But it remains that “here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF His Son...

NOT IN HIM but HIS FAITH...follow Him Robert...do JUST AS...He did...because of what He already did for you...
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
clefty said:
Really? Are you serious? I have wasted too much time on you. SHOW ME WHERE I POST THAT

Here it is again...BECAUSE of what was done for me I want to keep the Law...I was saved then works out of gratitude just as it was in the OT...the just live by faith...

My works to receive righteousness are filthy rags...

What did Adam do to be created? Nothing...What did you do to be conceived? NOTHING...all you did was accept you were conceived and were born and I assume now wish to do what you can to stay alive...

Same in the faith walk...it was done for us and we must merely recognize it was and in gratitude OBEY...

It was always faith first...

Noah believed FIRST and then worked on the ark

Abraham had faith FIRST and then obeyed

Israel agreed they needed passing over...thus killed the lamb...

THEY WERE SAVED BEFORE THE 10 COMMANDMENTS WERE REVEALED TO THEM...

But it remains that “here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF His Son...

NOT IN HIM but HIS FAITH...follow Him Robert...do JUST AS...He did...because of what He already did for you...
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Referring to Old Testament examples is proof that you don't understand the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law.

Jesus has ALREADY fulfilled the law for you, Matthew 5:18. God has already accepted Jesus into heaven in your name and on your behalf. You are complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

That was not good enough for you, you want to try and become righteous by the law.
 
C

clefty

New member
Robert Pate said:
Referring to Old Testament examples is proof that you don't understand the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law.

Jesus has ALREADY fulfilled the law for you, Matthew 5:18. God has already accepted Jesus into heaven in your name and on your behalf. You are complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

That was not good enough for you, you want to try and become righteous by the law.
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Nope...just want to be more like my Saviour less than what I was...because of what He did
 
C

clefty

New member
Robert Pate said:
Trying to be like Jesus is a work of the law.
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nope is a sign of appreciation even on a secular level kids model themselves after their hero’s...

No one will be saved by trying to be like Jesus.
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Yup...but He loves us anyway...and for trying...not once did He say think I have come to abolish the law...you don’t need to follow me...no need to obey me mine...
 
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