Isn't it reasonable to doubt Young Earth Creationism?
- Thread starter Vulcan Logician
- Start date
iouae
Well-known member
Do you believe this world cannot be "very good" if there is death?
Every critter that lived and died should with its last breath praise and thank God for this very good world, and for every day they lived and enjoyed being alive. The alternative is to never have lived, which is very bad. All life is a great gift, and every day should be regarded as such.
Because of scripture you invented?
The Bible takes issue with your ideas:
For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Exodus 20:11 NKJV
Exodus 20:11 NKJV
We know, we know, you think "all" doesn't mean "all," or space isn't included. However, your ideas are not supported by scripture.
This has nothing to do with logic; it has to do with what is written.
There's no point arguing about "logic" of you will not respect plain English.
Yeah, because you were there and know best.
It means no such thing.
That's what it says.
And God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:10b NKJV
Genesis 1:10b NKJV
Why not do it your way? Plenty of reasons. Most importantly: You're not God.
By the time He had finished, it was "very good." Your objection is bizarre, unnecessary and designed to allow room for your ideas of billion of years.
"Scientists" think fish turn into people — something you deny.
You've got your head in the clouds.
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ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
iouae
Well-known member
I did correct there mistake that YEC's think it was not right from the start. It has always been right. YEC's think God started with a world which He made tohu and bohu. I don't.
God says He did not create the world "tohu". Isa 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, H8414 he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
If God did not create the world "tohu" then YEC's have to admit the Genesis account was not how God originally created earth.
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Not to butt in.
Yes. But it all started six thousand years ago. It's really happening, but we all came on the scene six thousand years ago, even human evidence that appears to be older than six thousand years old, was already there when we began six thousand years ago.
Everything science says is right, until they learn they were wrong before, but NOW they're right. Science tells us how old we are. The day after Adam was created, when he was one day old, science would have said he's twenty-one or nineteen or thirty-nine, or whatever he was, when God made him, with, presumably, a belly button. Why would Adam have a belly button? Because Adam was a man, just like us.
iouae
Well-known member
Find me an "all" in the Bible where it means "all" with no exceptions, and I will probably find you a false doctrine.
"All" in most English is not "all with no exceptions".
This challenge makes no sense. Genesis says that God made the world in six days. An early part of that process saw the Earth in an incomplete or chaotic state.
You think this is unacceptable. Why is anyone's guess.
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iouae
Well-known member
On the subject of God creating everything before the fall "very good" - I say that the world today is still, and has always been "very good".
I would rather live today than to have been Adam in Eden.
For one, I have seen millions of beautiful women, for which I thank God, and thank God that I don't live in a society where we cover our women from head to toe.
Secondly, we have travel and technology, and movies, and satellite TV and the internet, so my range of experiences is so above fruit and gardening. Believe me, I like fruit and gardening, but I have so much more to enjoy today (including the football world cup). So this world is, was and forever shall be "very good" because of God taking the trouble to make it so.
I would rather live today than to have been Adam in Eden.
For one, I have seen millions of beautiful women, for which I thank God, and thank God that I don't live in a society where we cover our women from head to toe.
Secondly, we have travel and technology, and movies, and satellite TV and the internet, so my range of experiences is so above fruit and gardening. Believe me, I like fruit and gardening, but I have so much more to enjoy today (including the football world cup). So this world is, was and forever shall be "very good" because of God taking the trouble to make it so.
iouae
Well-known member
Derf quoted Exo 20:11
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Derf said that "all" excludes the possibility that some was created 13.7 billion years before. That is why we are discussing "all". So my challenge remains, find me an "all" in the Bible where there are no exceptions. I say every all has an exception. I may be wrong. In logic and maths we could say "all circles are not squares" and be right, but the Bible language does not use all this way.
You like death?
:AMR:
Have you even read Genesis?
Ah, a soccer fan. Figures.
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No.
You assert billions of years and teach that the Bible accommodates your ideas.
However, the Bible says "six days." You tell us why "six days" cannot mean what it plainly says.
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iouae
Well-known member
Old light, geologic column, earth tohu.
If you want to say science contradicts the Biblical account, we would have something to discuss. The Bible does not leave room for billions of years.
The starlight problem is probably the biggest challenge YECs face.
The geologic column is a concept that assumes the truth of billions of years.
That the Earth was in a chaotic or incomplete state is part of the Genesis account. That you don't like the description is not much of an argument.
Furthermore, none of these points make it impossible that the Bible doesn't mean "six days."
John 1 KJV
(3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? - Mark 8:36-37 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark8:36-37&version=NKJV
iouae
Well-known member
Excellent scripture!
The last part of the verse is needed to make it an inclusive, absolute all, lending weight to what I said that just saying "all things were made by Him" would not have been enough on its own.
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iouae
Well-known member
This world is very good, the future Kingdom of God is even better. Both were made by God.
The world is beautiful, yes. But very good it is not. Have you even read a history book on just the last century? Heck, forget the last century, just look at the last 50 years.
Is abortion "very good"? Is war "very good"? What about homosexuality? "Very good"?
Far from it.
iouae
Well-known member
Have abortion, war and homosexuality affected or touched your life? Mine not. So its a very good world, even for those living in the ***** places of the world. Animals and plants too have a glorious life. But you can focus on the negative - that is God's gift to you.
Phl 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.