What is the Gospel?

Sonnet · Dec 1, 2017

glorydaz said:
Trying to change the subject. How juvenile of you.

Why don't you quote some scripture....it reveals so much? opcorn:

The subject isn't my integrity, nor yours. Please stay on topic. You say scripture does not affirm that Christ died for all and yet John 3:14-16 is a genuine offer.

Or do you agree with AMR:

Ask Mr. Religion said:
...What I have stated is that the good news is not genuinely offered to each and every person, for obviously if this were true each and every person will be saved. To assume that such an offer can be made to each and every person is to assume God is unable to do what He has willed to do, for it is clear not all are saved...

AMR

(my emphasis)

glorydaz · Dec 1, 2017

Sonnet said:
The subject isn't my integrity, nor yours. Please stay on topic. You say scripture does not affirm that Christ died for all and yet John 3:14-16 is a genuine offer.

Or do you agree with AMR:

It's clear that John 3:14-16 is speaking of whosoever believeth. This is not complicated. No more complicated than the Gospels being written to different audiences for different purposes. You just have to engage your brain, and put off your NEED to be right at any cost....including at the cost of the whole TRUTH.

glorydaz · Dec 1, 2017

Danoh said:
Access was never...possession.

"The door of faith" between the two had/has to be "walked" thru.

Sonnet said:
The subject isn't my integrity, nor yours. Please stay on topic. You say scripture does not affirm that Christ died for all and yet John 3:14-16 is a genuine offer.

I'll just apply Danoh's quote to yours. Same thing. Whosoever believeth.......there is a stipulation there, and you are too pig-headed to see it.

Sonnet · Dec 1, 2017

glorydaz said:
It's clear that John 3:14-16 is speaking of whosoever believeth. This is not complicated. No more complicated than the Gospels being written to different audiences for different purposes. You just have to engage your brain, and put off your NEED to be right at any cost....including at the cost of the whole TRUTH.

No, to be a genuine offer, the bronze serpent was raised for all those who were dying. Any one of them could look and live - not just some. Your position makes God's offer disingenuous.

I repeat, was it a genuine offer or not?

glorydaz · Dec 1, 2017

Sonnet said:
No, to be a genuine offer, the bronze serpent was raised for all those who were dying. Any one of them could look and live - not just some. Your position makes God's offer disingenuous.

I repeat, was it a genuine offer or not?

You can repeat your ignorance a hundred times and it only counts against you. Whosoever believeth.....Those who look live. This is not rocket science. :yawn:

Sonnet · Dec 1, 2017

glorydaz said:
I'll just apply Danoh's quote to yours. Same thing. Whosoever believeth.......there is a stipulation there, and you are too pig-headed to see it.

The bronze serpent was offered to those who may have, for whatever reason, refused to look.

Sonnet · Dec 1, 2017

glorydaz said:
You can repeat your ignorance a hundred times and it only counts against you. Whosoever believeth.....Those who look live. This is not rocket science. :yawn:

You are ignoring what I keep asking you GD.

Ask Mr. Religion · Dec 1, 2017

Sonnet said:
Or do you agree with AMR:

If you are going to continue to rely upon me as a litmus test for your agenda, take the time to digest my views fully:

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?126873-What-is-the-Gospel&p=5129265&viewfull=1#post5129265

:AMR:

AMR

daqq · Dec 1, 2017

Lol, so if I said, "Whosoever responds to this post will receive a response back from me", my statement does not actually count as an "offer" to anyone who does not respond to my post? Semantics gone wild, MAD wild, even MAD Calvin Reformed wild.

daqq · Dec 1, 2017

Sonnet said:
The subject isn't my integrity, nor yours. Please stay on topic. You say scripture does not affirm that Christ died for all and yet John 3:14-16 is a genuine offer.

Or do you agree with AMR:

Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion
...What I have stated is that the good news is not genuinely offered to each and every person, for obviously if this were true each and every person will be saved. To assume that such an offer can be made to each and every person is to assume God is unable to do what He has willed to do, for it is clear not all are saved...

AMR

(my emphasis)

Click to expand...

Doubtful you will get a straight answer on this because it is a matter which concerns the "freewill" argument, (and the supposed "total depravity" of all mankind). Calvinist and Reform cannot allow the Creator to make such a genuine offer because that would mean that any natural man must have the ability to accept the offer, (and that just cannot be so, according to their doctrine).

glorydaz · Dec 1, 2017

Sonnet said:
No, to be a genuine offer, the bronze serpent was raised for all those who were dying. Any one of them could look and live - not just some. Your position makes God's offer disingenuous.

I repeat, was it a genuine offer or not?

That you continue to force that example beyond it's intended scope is amateurish, at best. You would have to make the same claim of the death angel passing over the children of Israel at the Passover for your claim to hold true. Are you willing to do that?

I repeat, why do you insist on forcing your own understanding onto EVERY verse we ever discuss?

Those who look lived. Those who applied the blood over the doorposts lived. That is a comparison you can make.

glorydaz · Dec 1, 2017

Sonnet said:
The bronze serpent was offered to those who may have, for whatever reason, refused to look.

And the Gospel is preached to those who may have, for whatever reason, refused to believe.

glorydaz · Dec 1, 2017

Sonnet said:
You are ignoring what I keep asking you GD.

No, you just don't like my answers.

Here.....you answer me for a change. Let me see if I like your answers.

Who are the "many"?

Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

glorydaz · Dec 1, 2017

Ask Mr. Religion said:
If you are going to continue to rely upon me as a litmus test for your agenda, take the time to digest my views fully:

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?126873-What-is-the-Gospel&p=5129265&viewfull=1#post5129265

:AMR:

AMR

He won't even take the time to digest the simple things I've offered.

Not much chance, IMO, he's capable of digesting anything.

Clete · Dec 2, 2017

Sonnet said:
No, to be a genuine offer, the bronze serpent was raised for all those who were dying. Any one of them could look and live - not just some. Your position makes God's offer disingenuous.

I repeat, was it a genuine offer or not?

glorydaz said:
And the Gospel is preached to those who may have, for whatever reason, refused to believe.

Am I missing something? (I may well be! I haven't read every post.)

Where, exactly, is the disagreement here?

Sonnet · Dec 2, 2017

Clete said:
Am I missing something? (I may well be! I haven't read every post.)

Where, exactly, is the disagreement here?

Paul's unequivocal view that the Gospel may include (indeed, should include - as it is the very essence of what he considered to be the Gospel) the statement that, 'Christ died for our sins,' isn't shared amongst all Christians. Rather, such, they say, is to be actually withheld from preaching.

This proscription should be contrasted, of course, with Paul's emphatic, 'this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.'

Sonnet · Dec 2, 2017

glorydaz said:
No, you just don't like my answers.

Here.....you answer me for a change. Let me see if I like your answers.

Who are the "many"?

Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

What would you say the same word ('polus') means here GD?

Romans 5:12,19
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Sonnet · Dec 2, 2017

glorydaz said:
That you continue to force that example beyond it's intended scope is amateurish, at best. You would have to make the same claim of the death angel passing over the children of Israel at the Passover for your claim to hold true. Are you willing to do that?

Where in scripture is the exclusion of Egyptians and the inclusion of the Israelites made to explicitly symbolise a limited atonement?

I repeat, why do you insist on forcing your own understanding onto EVERY verse we ever discuss?

I give my opinion and you give yours - why is that problematic?

Those who look lived. Those who applied the blood over the doorposts lived. That is a comparison you can make.

Those who may have decided to not heed God's/Moses's advice were not excluded from the provision.

glorydaz · Dec 2, 2017

Clete said:
Am I missing something? (I may well be! I haven't read every post.)

Where, exactly, is the disagreement here?

You're missing him straining at the same gnat he always has....faith in the blood.

glorydaz · Dec 2, 2017

Sonnet said:
What would you say the same word ('polus') means here GD?

Romans 5:12,19
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Many....just what it says. Many will be made righteous....not all.

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