ECT The Gospel of God's Grace

Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Dr. Alva McClain said that "This section is the very heart of the book of Romans. For this reason, all Christians ought to memorize Ro 3:21-26. If someone should ask me, 'Brother McClain, if you could have just six verses out of the Bible, and all the rest be taken away, which would you take?', I would select these six verses. All of God’s Gospel (Good News) is there, and in a way found nowhere else in the Word of God" (Alva McClain, The Gospel of God's Grace).

Let us look at this passage and notice that it says that a righteousness apart from law is given to all who believe:

"But now apart from law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus" (Ro.3:21-26).​

If anyone says that it takes more than faith to receive this righteousness of God then he does not understand what Paul wrote here or is purposely perverting what he wrote.

Now a question for those who do believe what Paul wrote there. In verse 21 Paul says that 'the law and the Prophets testify" about this truth. What does he mean?

Thanks!
 
john w

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Jerry Shugart said:
Now a question for those who do believe what Paul wrote there. In verse 21 Paul says that 'the law and the Prophets testify" about this truth. What does he mean?

Thanks!
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Translation: I, the kid Jerry, am not really interested in soliciting others' views on this subject, or any subject, much less learning from others, as I already know the answer, but this thread, like all the other soap box that threads that I initiate, gives me another shot at asserting, pounding the podium, declaring "victory," and returning to my "I showed them a thin, or two, Lucy" humanism echo chamber, to think up another disingenuous thread, so the question posed by me, " What does he mean?," is really quite unnecessary, superfluous, much like when others ask the Chairman of the Federal Reserve questions, or the Queen of England speaks on public policy.

Carry on, kid.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
john w said:
Translation: I, the kid Jerry, am not really interested in soliciting others' views on this subject, or any subject, much less learning from others, as I already know the answer, but this thread, like all the other soap box that threads that I initiate, gives me another shot at asserting, pounding the podium, declaring "victory," and returning to my "I showed them a thin, or two, Lucy" humanism echo chamber, to think up another disingenuous thread, so the question posed by me, " What does he mean?," is really quite unnecessary, superfluous, much like when others ask the Chairman of the Federal Reserve questions, or the Queen of England speaks on public policy.
Click to expand...

john's panties are in a knot!
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
Dr. Alva McClain said that "This section is the very heart of the book of Romans. For this reason, all Christians ought to memorize Ro 3:21-26. If someone should ask me, 'Brother McClain, if you could have just six verses out of the Bible, and all the rest be taken away, which would you take?', I would select these six verses. All of God’s Gospel (Good News) is there, and in a way found nowhere else in the Word of God" (Alva McClain, The Gospel of God's Grace).

Let us look at this passage and notice that it says that a righteousness apart from law is given to all who believe:

"But now apart from law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus" (Ro.3:21-26).​

If anyone says that it takes more than faith to receive this righteousness of God then he does not understand what Paul wrote here or is purposely perverting what he wrote.

Now a question for those who do believe what Paul wrote there. In verse 21 Paul says that 'the law and the Prophets testify" about this truth. What does he mean?

Thanks!
Click to expand...



Hi Jerry and I believe that the verb IS MANIFESTED / PHANEOO is in the Greek PERFECT TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE AND IN THE Indicative Mood of a FACT !!

BEING WITNESSED / MARTYREO is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE of Paul's ministry !!

Being witnessed , means , to bear witness , bear record , be a witness , or , have a good report !

If it was just being MANIFESTED , N O W APART from the Law , SO the 12 apostles never saw it !!

Jesus had it manifested by His coming to earth and appointing a NEW APOSTLE , CALLED PAUL !!

Here 2 Cor 3:13-15 comes into play , that Israel never really UNDERSTOOD the Law of Moses and than many say they UNDERSTOOD the MYSTERY , no way !!

dan p
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
DAN P said:
If it was just being MANIFESTED , N O W APART from the Law , SO the 12 apostles never saw it !!
Click to expand...

I am asking your opinion as to what the following words in "bold" are referring to:

"But now apart from law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).​
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
I am asking your opinion as to what the following words in "bold" are referring to:

"But now apart from law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).​
Click to expand...



Hi Jerry and I did address them in my reply , post #4 !!

dan p
 
D

Danoh

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
I am asking your opinion as to what the following words in "bold" are referring to:

"But now apart from law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).​
Click to expand...

He is referring to what he has been talking about all the way back to 1:18 the righteousness of God the Law testified not only that God would give to any man able to patiently continue in GOD's standard of well-doing, but that the Law proved the whole world incapable of patiently continuing in the well-doing of.

Towards what intent?

Towards the solution that is Rom. 5: 6-8 - in EACH our STEAD.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
john w said:
Did you know that you are always right?
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Thank you for your confidence, john.

But in truth I have been wrong about many things in the past. And unlike some people on this forum I do admit it when I am wrong and consider the experience a good lesson learned. By the way, do you still think that a spiritual body is just a natural body minus the blood?
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Danoh said:
He is referring to what he has been talking about all the way back to 1:18
Click to expand...

Nothing which is spoken of in "bold" in the following passage is found all the way back to 1:18:

"But now apart from law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify" (Ro.3:21).​
 
D

Danoh

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
Nothing which is spoken of in "bold" in the following passage is found all the way back to 1:18:

"But now apart from law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify" (Ro.3:21).​
Click to expand...

Just goes to show how poor you actually are at rightly dividing the word of truth as to the things that differ, in this case, between Paul's Due Time But Now and that which the Law and the Prophets testified.

One thing remains obvious, verse 19's "Now we know" is not your reality.

Wow, Jerry - just wow - you are absolutely clueless as to how to properly sort out some of the simplest of those simple things that differ.

Just terrible at it...wow.

:doh:

Rom. 5: 6-8.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Danoh said:
Just goes to show how poor you actually are at rightly dividing the word of truth as to the things that differ, in this case, between Paul's Due Time But Now and that which the Law and the Prophets testified.

One thing remains obvious, verse 19's "Now we know" is not your reality.

Wow, Jerry - just wow - you are absolutely clueless as to how to properly sort out some of the simplest of those simple things that differ.

Just terrible at it...wow.

:doh:

Rom. 5: 6-8.
Click to expand...

You're an idiot who talks and talks but has nothing to say.
 
john w

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Jerry Shugart said:
Thank you for your confidence, john.

But in truth I have been wrong about many things in the past. And unlike some people on this forum I do admit it when I am wrong and consider the experience a good lesson learned. By the way, do you still think that a spiritual body is just a natural body minus the blood?
Click to expand...
No, you never admit it. You are always right. Just ask you, and most of TOL, kid.Fess up...release yourself....let go....free yoursef, kid.
 
john w

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Jerry Shugart said:
By the way, do you still think that a spiritual body is just a natural body minus the blood?
Click to expand...

By the way....you learned well, from the devil, on how to satanically accuse.

Do you still beat your "domestic partner?"

Do you still think men are born via the Holy Spirit, like the Saviour was, and we have no sin nature, when born, like the Saviour, or, that the virgin conception was quite irrelevant, as all people are born without sin?

So there.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
john w said:
Do you still think men are born via the Holy Spirit, like the Saviour was, and we have no sin nature, when born, like the Saviour, or, that the virgin conception was quite irrelevant, as all people are born without sin?
Click to expand...

In the following verse the Apostle Paul describes how he was saved by being made alive by the spirit:

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5).​

Here Paul uses the word "regeneration" in regard to his salvation. This word is translated from the Greek word paliggenesia, which is the combination of palin and genesis.

Palin means "joined to verbs of all sorts, it denotes renewal or repetition of the action" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

Genesis means "used of birth, nativity" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So when we combine the two words the meaning is a "repetition of a birth."

So we can understand that when Paul used the Greek word translated "regeneration" to describe his salvation experience he was speaking of a repetition of a birth.

It is obvious that the reference is not to a "physical" rebirth, or the repetition of one's physical birth. Paul could only be speaking of a repetition of a spiritual birth. And the words that follow make it certain that the "birth" of which Paul is referring to is a "spiritual" birth--"renewing of the Holy Spirit."

Since the renewal of the Holy Spirit is in regard to being made alive spiritually then the previous birth of the Spirit must also be in regard to being made alive spiritually by the Holy Spirit. In other words, since a person is "regenerated" by the Holy Spirit then that means that one must have previously been born of the Holy Spirit. That happens at conception.

Read em and weep, sonny boy!
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
Sorry Dan, I am having a difficult time understanding what you said.
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Hi and that is the way I write , with the verb , that tell the story !!

You are to committed to the gospels , that dispensationalism , falls by the way side !!

It is obvious;y that you are not an Acts 9 believer , but you believe it , what you believe !!

dan p
 
john w

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Jerry Shugart said:
In the following verse the Apostle Paul describes how he was saved by being made alive by the spirit:

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5).​

Here Paul uses the word "regeneration" in regard to his salvation. This word is translated from the Greek word paliggenesia, which is the combination of palin and genesis.

Palin means "joined to verbs of all sorts, it denotes renewal or repetition of the action" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

Genesis means "used of birth, nativity" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So when we combine the two words the meaning is a "repetition of a birth."

So we can understand that when Paul used the Greek word translated "regeneration" to describe his salvation experience he was speaking of a repetition of a birth.

It is obvious that the reference is not to a "physical" rebirth, or the repetition of one's physical birth. Paul could only be speaking of a repetition of a spiritual birth. And the words that follow make it certain that the "birth" of which Paul is referring to is a "spiritual" birth--"renewing of the Holy Spirit."

Since the renewal of the Holy Spirit is in regard to being made alive spiritually then the previous birth of the Spirit must also be in regard to being made alive spiritually by the Holy Spirit. In other words, since a person is "regenerated" by the Holy Spirit then that means that one must have previously been born of the Holy Spirit. That happens at conception.

Read em and weep, sonny boy!
Click to expand...

Do you still think men are born via the Holy Spirit, like the Saviour was, and we have no sin nature, when born, like the Saviour, or, that the virgin conception was quite irrelevant, as all people are born without sin?

"It is obvious" that you do not believe the scriptures, kid.


Why should we believe you, instead of the scriptures?

I won again!
____

"were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.....the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:....The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies......What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?.... how can he be clean that is born of a woman?....But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence....But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me..... Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me..... But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"-the LORD God, the scriptures, Paul

Why should we believe you, instead of the LORD God, the scriptures, Paul, kid?


Fun!
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
john w said:
Do you still think men are born via the Holy Spirit, like the Saviour was, and we have no sin nature, when born, like the Saviour, or, that the virgin conception was quite irrelevant, as all people are born without sin?
Click to expand...

I showed you by the Scriptures that all people are born of the Holy Spirit at conception but you just turned your eyes from that truth.

I do believe that the Lord Jesus was made like his breathren in every way:

"Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people" (Heb.2:11-12).​

Besides that, why did you just IGNORE everything which I said about what Paul said aboiut his salvation here?

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5).​

Joseph Henry Thayer says that the Greek word translated regeneration "denotes the restoration of a thing to its pristine state, its renovation" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

Richard C. Trench says that the word has the meaning of "a recovery, a restoration" (Trench, Synonyms of the New Testament).

The word "restoration" means "a bringing back to its original position or condition" (Merriam-Webster.com).

So we can understand that when Paul used the Greek word translated "regeneration" to describe his salvation experience he was speaking of a repetition of a birth.

It is obvious that the reference is not to a "physical" rebirth, or the repetition of one's physical birth. Paul could only be speaking of a repetition of a spiritual birth. And the words that follow make it certain that the "birth" of which Paul is referring to is a "spiritual" birth--"renewing of the Holy Spirit."

The truth has no place in your heart, sonny boy!

You would rather cling to a teaching which makes the LORD the author of sin!
 
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