Why folks struggle with Paul

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clefty

New member
Eve did not sin because of her lusts initially, but she was deceived by an external tempter, and when she believed the serpent her lusts then were activated in a bad way and took over. Our deceitful lusts arise most of the time from within.
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The irony here is she desired to put an extra hedge around the law true to pharisiacal form not from lusts as traditionally ascribed but a desire to obey.

She answered that Yah said no one could touch the fruit or they would die. Yah however did NOT say that but instructed no one could eat the fruit. Technically she and adam could play catch with the fruit all day...

However she deceived herself...in taking of the fruit and holding it she then realized she did not die thus she stumbled into eating it...

Now was Adam only instructed by Yah? and then did he place the lie into Yah’s instructions relating it to Eve or did she put the lie in her own mind...

Satan is wise to our error...
 
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T

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings clefty,
clefty said:
There was indeed a change...a curse of all things made...the ground even...relationships
They were expelled after witnessing Who drew first blood...Yah killed first to cover them...a substitute passing over of His WRATH...
Yah made the changes with His curses and killing...which ALL OF THE UNIVERSE WITNESSED...now indeed Adam and Eve knew good and evil and lest they reach out and eat from the tree of life and live forever=they were thrown out of reach to the tree of life...
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I agree with the above, except for the term “substitute”. The animal slain did not take Adam and Eve’s place as they were still sentenced to die and were cast out of the garden and direct access to the tree of life, nor was it a matter of passing over of His wrath, as they were to suffer the consequences of their sin. God was instructing them and us that the reversal of sin and its consequences will be by a representative, what we now know as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
C

clefty

New member
TrevorL said:
Greetings clefty,
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hello Trevor

I agree with the above, except for the term “substitute”. The animal slain did not take Adam and Eve’s place as they were still sentenced to die and were cast out of the garden and direct access to the tree of life,
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the animal slain substituted the immediate death/blood which Adam and Eve deserved...instead plan b the plan of salvation was inacted...SUCH A FORTUNATE FALL as without it we would never have seen the grace, forgiveness, long suffering, patience, salvation, and sacrifice of YAH...there would never have been need to save...

This substitute pleased Him as it terminated the experiment forever...it was final...the test was failed...the accuser had won this battle but the war was just prolonged....

The death of this substitute for Adam and Eve covered Adam and Eve and His wrath passed over...and fulfilled the Law that life (blood) was demanded and exacted...


nor was it a matter of passing over of His wrath, as they were to suffer the consequences of their sin.
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they were spared but were not saved the consequence of their sin...NONE OF US ARE...we all must die for the wages of sin is death...but NOT the second death...just like Israel was passed over and saved from slavery but not saved into the promise land...they died in the desert after all...for their unbeleif...and those that made it too died...we all die saved or unsaved...that is the wage...

God was instructing them and us that the reversal of sin and its consequences will be by a representative, what we now know as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Kind regards
Trevor
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That animal was the first EVER KILLED...never revived...didnt resurrect...it was a substitute in the finality of the justice of Yah...tested they failed and deserved death’s finality...but instead a substitute

His Son too substituted for us not by His death which we all will enter into but by His resurrection...which NOW He can reverse the consequence of sin...and finally be that Representative...Advocate...Redeemer...that poor innocent animal was never resurrected into a new role of representative...it remains a substitute to the immediate death deserved...an innocent substitute to fulfill the demand for justice that life (shedding of blood) must be ended for the violation...

But now because of His resurrection...that faithful life is not terminated forever...

May He lead,

clefty
 
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TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again clefty,
clefty said:
That animal was the first EVER KILLED...never revived...didnt resurrect...it was a substitute in the finality of the justice of Yah...tested they failed and deserved death’s finality...but instead a substitute
His Son too substituted for us not by His death which we all will enter into but by His resurrection...which NOW He can reverse the consequence of sin...and finally be that Representative...Advocate...Redeemer...that poor innocent animal was never resurrected into a new role of representative...it remains a substitute to the immediate death deserved...an innocent substitute to fulfill the demand for justice that life (shedding of blood) must be ended for the violation...
But now because of His resurrection...that faithful life is not terminated forever...
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I appreciate your response, but I cannot accept that the animal slain in Eden was accepted as a substitute. The sacrifice of an animal cannot take away sin. No justice was fulfilled by the slaying of an animal. Nor was Jesus a substitute as we need to have faith in his death and resurrection, and be identified in this death and resurrection by this faith and baptism Romans 6:1-8. Jesus, by his suffering, crucifixion, sinlessness, death and resurrection opened the way to life for his followers.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
C

clefty

New member
TrevorL said:
Greetings again clefty,I appreciate your response, but I cannot accept that the animal slain in Eden was accepted as a substitute. The sacrifice of an animal cannot take away sin. No justice was fulfilled by the slaying of an animal. Nor was Jesus a substitute as we need to have faith in his death and resurrection, and be identified in this death and resurrection by this faith and baptism Romans 6:1-8. Jesus, by his suffering, crucifixion, sinlessness, death and resurrection opened the way to life for his followers.

Kind regards
Trevor
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Yes the sacrifice of an animal can NOT take away sin...it was a substitute death to appease a wrought and angry God...His Wrath...sin cant be washed away either...or taken away...it must be destroyed and finally will be...it was not at the cross...what was destroyed there was the eternal consequence of sin...but sin itself will be destroyed when the Lamb in revelation destroys it...forever...

No justice was fulfilled by the slaying of an animal...but He was appeased that finality was brought...Eden’s experiment was over...the consequence continues...and now HalleluYah all of creations can witness the grace and mercy and patience of Him...

And finally the temporary suspension of the destruction of sin will finally occur and anything tainted with its curse will be destroyed...we are covered from this Wrath by His blood a substitute for what should have been all of us...His death alone appeased His Father...with it He FINALLY was vindicated as not only God of all but GOOD God of all...as all of creation witnessed the LOVE by His sacrifice of His only begotten Son...begotten in the Spirit to be reborn in the flesh that those born in the flesh can be reborn into spirit

Yes the way to life and eternally was opened but sin is still all around...may you abide in His love...the love of a GOOD God
 
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TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again clefty,
clefty said:
Yes the sacrifice of an animal can NOT take away sin...it was a substitute death to appease a wrought and angry God...His Wrath...
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I cannot accept your suggestion that God’s wrath was appeased by the death of a lamb or similar animal in Eden. I do not know any Scripture that directly supports this view. I believe that this claim concerning this particular shedding of blood, is a first step towards Pagan ritualism, appeasing a wrathful God. Two comparisons: 1. Molech, where they burnt their children to appease the wrath of God. 2. If my child did something wrong, arousing my wrath, it would not be acceptable for me to kick our cat to appease my wrath. God is a God of Justice and Righteousness, and this quality and character is contrary to the concept of substitution.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
clefty said:
Yes the sacrifice of an animal can NOT take away sin...it was a substitute death to appease a wrought and angry God...His Wrath...sin cant be washed away either...or taken away...it must be destroyed and finally will be...it was not at the cross...what was destroyed there was the eternal consequence of sin...but sin itself will be destroyed when the Lamb in revelation destroys it...forever...

No justice was fulfilled by the slaying of an animal...but He was appeased that finality was brought...Eden’s experiment was over...the consequence continues...and now HalleluYah all of creations can witness the grace and mercy and patience of Him...

And finally the temporary suspension of the destruction of sin will finally occur and anything tainted with its curse will be destroyed...we are covered from this Wrath by His blood a substitute for what should have been all of us...His death alone appeased His Father...with it He FINALLY was vindicated as not only God of all but GOOD God of all...as all of creation witnessed the LOVE by His sacrifice of His only begotten Son...begotten in the Spirit to be reborn in the flesh that those born in the flesh can be reborn into spirit

Yes the way to life and eternally was opened but sin is still all around...may you abide in His love...the love of a GOOD God
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The only way to take away sin is to have the life of Christ within helping us to overcome by the power of the Spirit.

Gods wrath is upon the children of disobedience, so we are to obey God and do his will. Jesus came and showed us the way, by living it out and teaching us how to live right before God, and we are now saved by his life, through him, by the word of God, through faith, by the grace of God. Not by Jesus dying on the cross. Jesus was murdered by wicked men, he even said "this is your hour and the power of darkness" God has nothing to do with darkness and he wasn't in the hearts of those who murdered Jesus, their father the devil was. Jesus even said to Pilate, those who have handed me over to you have committed a greater sin, so what they did was sinful and sin isn't from God.

God is love, he doesn't need a human sacrifice to appease him, God needed a living sacrifice to live by his will, which is what Jesus was, Jesus sacrificed his whole life, laying his whole life down to do the will of God, and he was without spot or blemish because he never sinned. He never lived by his own will but by the will if his father, he was even doing this at the young age of 12.

He never sinned thus God was seen in his fullness through him, he was in the fullness of God bodily, in his express image. And God wants us to be a willing living sacrifice, willing to lay down our lives (die the death) do his will and bring his love, his word and the life of Christ to others, and this is done through Christ by the power of the Spirit, with the hope that Christ through us can save many. We are to die for Christ to live, we are to decrease for the life of Christ Jesus to increase in and through us.

The blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin, that's not the natural blood that came from him on the cross 2000 years ago, it's the life blood of Christ within us, his blood which we drink and his flesh which we eat. Which means to take his outward and inward life in and then we are to live it out. Jesus said, if we do not eat his flesh and drink his blood, then we have no life in us. If this was his natural flesh and blood then we would be cannibals, Jesus is speaking in the Spirit and is talking about his life within, that's why he said without eating his flesh and drinking his blood we have no life in us, because we won't have his life within or be able to live it out, unless we take him in by listening to the word of God, taking in the gospel and his teachings and follow him and obey what he teaches us to do, and living it out by living the new and living way that Jesus showed and lived out for us to follow and God will bless us in his time with his Spirit who will teach us all things and help us to overcome. Jesus is our perfect example to follow, he showed us how to live right before God.
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
iouae said:
When Christ tells a parable, He makes sure that the parable is simple, and makes one point and one point only. Folks generally go wrong when they try to see multiple points in Christ's parables. And even with only one point, folks had to ask Christ to interpret the parable.

With Paul's parables, Paul makes multiple comparisons. And here, folks do not realise that Paul sometimes has to stretch things a bit to get his multiple points to fit the parable.

Take for instance the comparison (com-parable) of Christ with Adam.

This is entirely a Pauline comparison. Christ never compared himself with Adam.
And Paul is within his rights to make up parables as he sees fit.

And sometimes things don't quite fit so Paul shoehorns the facts a bit to make them fit his parable.

In the Christ=Adam parable here are some less than perfect fits...

Sin did not enter the world by one man - it entered by one woman.

If sin entered the world by Adam, then sin did not enter the world by ONE but by two, viz. Adan AND Eve.

Paul blames the death of all future humans on Adam. Yet Adam played no part in the first human death, which was the death of Abel.
The first man to sin was not the first man to die. Abel, a fairly righteous man, was the first to die. There is no indication that Abel died for his sins.

Paul writes in Rom 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Paul is saying basically that as Adam brought death, Christ brings life.
But where Paul is stretching it is in saying "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners". We all became sinners without any help from Adam. This has led many to falsely claim that somehow sin got passed down from Adam to us in some almost genetic way.

God created dying as the default condition without access to the Tree of Life.
It did not matter if one sinned or not, outside of Eden, all were destined to die. The one thing we can blame Adam and Eve for, is that they got mankind cut off from the Tree of Life.

There cannot be sin without the law (Rom 5:13)
And there cannot be death without sin according to Paul.
So here Paul has a problem, since folks were dying even before the law was given at Sinai.
Paul acknowledges he has a problem in Rom 5:14.

I never have a problem with Paul because I recognise that Paul is prepared to bend the facts a little to fit his analogies. Unfortunately, folks get super-literal when they quote Paul. Especially when Paul seems to be criticising the law. Which Paul does not do. Paul puts the law in its place saying that the law tells us what sin is.

Then Paul tells us what the answer to the problem of sin is - belief in Christ.
Many thought the answer to sin was to try a little harder to keep the law, as if the law could ever give one life.

Since being cut off from the Tree of Life, it does not matter how good you are or how well you keep the law, that will not be a substitute for the Tree of Life.

Which may sound like I am saying one does not have to keep the law. Like Paul, I am NOT saying that. I am saying the alternative is to go cap in hand to God and ask Him for eternal life.
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Interesting hypothesis.

Is the Adam / Jesus comparison a parable?

Yes. You are right. The woman sinned first then Adam.

However is that what is being compared?

Eve was deceived.

Adam willfully chose the error.

Even as Jesus willfully chose to obey God.
 
P

popsthebuilder

New member
clefty said:
Yes the sacrifice of an animal can NOT take away sin...it was a substitute death to appease a wrought and angry God...His Wrath...sin cant be washed away either...or taken away...it must be destroyed and finally will be...it was not at the cross...what was destroyed there was the eternal consequence of sin...but sin itself will be destroyed when the Lamb in revelation destroys it...forever...

No justice was fulfilled by the slaying of an animal...but He was appeased that finality was brought...Eden’s experiment was over...the consequence continues...and now HalleluYah all of creations can witness the grace and mercy and patience of Him...

And finally the temporary suspension of the destruction of sin will finally occur and anything tainted with its curse will be destroyed...we are covered from this Wrath by His blood a substitute for what should have been all of us...His death alone appeased His Father...with it He FINALLY was vindicated as not only God of all but GOOD God of all...as all of creation witnessed the LOVE by His sacrifice of His only begotten Son...begotten in the Spirit to be reborn in the flesh that those born in the flesh can be reborn into spirit

Yes the way to life and eternally was opened but sin is still all around...may you abide in His love...the love of a GOOD God
Click to expand...
"Eden's experiment"?!?

Do you claim GOD had to test a hypothesis in order to know a thing?

GOD is and has always been all knowing.

Don't you agree?



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C

clefty

New member
TrevorL said:
Greetings again clefty,I cannot accept your suggestion that God’s wrath was appeased by the death of a lamb or similar animal in Eden.
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the Law was broken the Law demanded a final consequence...solution...death of the Law breaker...that is Justice...

however GRACE MERCY AND RIGHTEOUSNESS were revealed for the first time EVER (recorded for us to read) by this death of an animal as a substitute for the death of Adam and Eve...

Prior to this Grace was never needed...Mercy not necessary and Righteousness a mere constant...never before had the Law been broken...by disobedience and leading to His KILLING...so in one act He broke His own Law and thereby revealed something NEVER KNOW of Him before...WRATH yes...but MERCY GRACE...

Again the Law was broken and demanded restoration...but now a down payment installment system was established until the final payment was made...grace and mercy taught by sacrifice

But you cant accept He was appeased... despite all the texts that state His pleasure of even the aroma? Why would He institute a system which was not pleasing to Himself?

I do not know any Scripture that directly supports this view. I believe that this claim concerning this particular shedding of blood, is a first step towards Pagan ritualism, appeasing a wrathful God. Two comparisons: 1. Molech, where they burnt their children to appease the wrath of God. 2. If my child did something wrong, arousing my wrath, it would not be acceptable for me to kick our cat to appease my wrath.
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not acceptable sure...but certainly done and often enough to coin its own phrase everyone uses...”go home and kick...the cat”?...cat? see? substituting something is not as good as the original...lol...

God is a God of Justice and Righteousness, and this quality and character is contrary to the concept of substitution.
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Yah is a God of Justice and Righteousness and this quality anc character is in His Law which has demands by which He taught mercy and grace...revealed for the first time when He didnt kill Adam and Eve but the animal...to cover them from His Wrath...
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
clefty said:
the Law was broken the Law demanded a final consequence...solution...death of the Law breaker...that is Justice...

however GRACE MERCY AND RIGHTEOUSNESS were revealed for the first time EVER (recorded for us to read) by this death of an animal as a substitute for the death of Adam and Eve...

Prior to this Grace was never needed...Mercy not necessary and Righteousness a mere constant...never before had the Law been broken...by disobedience and leading to His KILLING...so in one act He broke His own Law and thereby revealed something NEVER KNOW of Him before...WRATH yes...but MERCY GRACE...

Again the Law was broken and demanded restoration...but now a down payment installment system was established until the final payment was made...grace and mercy taught by sacrifice

But you cant accept He was appeased... despite all the texts that state His pleasure of even the aroma? Why would He institute a system which was not pleasing to Himself?

not acceptable sure...but certainly done and often enough to coin its own phrase everyone uses...”go home and kick...the cat”?...cat? see? substituting something is not as good as the original...lol...

Yah is a God of Justice and Righteousness and this quality anc character is in His Law which has demands by which He taught mercy and grace...revealed for the first time when He didnt kill Adam and Eve but the animal...to cover them from His Wrath...
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"He broke His own Law and thereby revealed something NEVER KNOW of Him"

What is this?

Can you expound on this specifically please?

It seems like you are saying GOD did not know a thing, and/ or made some mistake.

thank you, peace

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C

clefty

New member
popsthebuilder said:
"He broke His own Law and thereby revealed something NEVER KNOW of Him"

What is this?

Can you expound on this specifically please?

It seems like you are saying GOD did not know a thing, and/ or made some mistake.

thank you, peace

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
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Oops yes...”never knowN of Him”

Before the disobedience of Adam and Eve we only had a war in heaven with Satan cast out and given a planet...

Obviously spiritual war with no death casualties known in conventional warfare...angels with missing leg or wing etc

Death was NOT experienced and only when skins were made from animals which Yah made...

Thus in one act both justice and mercy were exacted...the law requires death despite its no killing prohibition...there had never been a death in Eden or creation prior=Law kept...and now Yah did so...He killed...to give grace and mercy to the offending party...

A foreshadowing of what He now would have to sacrifice to be a just and fair God...

You know the term “if you want it done right do it yourself?” Well there it is...

Yah vindicates Himself as a God by sacrificing Himself...for His own Law He broke...now He is also a GOOD God worthy of free will worship...

As a proven GOOD God He restores AND avenges Himself the doubt His ancient accuser Satan cast on all the universe that He was NOT a good God...

Because of the fortunate fall His wrath AND mercy were revealed...

HalleluYah
 
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JudgeRightly

JudgeRightly

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clefty said:
Oops yes...”never knowN of Him”

Before the disobedience of Adam and Eve we only had a war in heaven with Satan cast out and given a planet...
Click to expand...

Eden was Heaven on Earth.

Satan was cast out of Heaven (Eden) because He sinned against his Creator. But he wasn't cast out right away, he was able to cause both Adam and Eve to sin.

Obviously spiritual war with no death casualties known in conventional warfare...angels with missing leg or wing etc

Death was NOT experienced and only when skins were made from animals which Yah made...

Thus in one act both justice and mercy were exacted...the law requires death despite its no killing prohibition...there had never been a death in Eden or creation prior=Law kept...and now Yah did so...He killed...to give grace and mercy to the offending party...

A foreshadowing of what He now would have to sacrifice to be a just and fair God...

You know the term “if you want it done right do it yourself?” Well there it is...

Yah vindicates Himself as a God by sacrificing Himself...for His own Law He broke...now He is also a GOOD God worthy of free will worship...

As a proven GOOD God He restores AND avenges Himself the doubt His ancient accuser Satan cast on all the universe that He was NOT a good God...

Because of the fortunate fall His wrath AND mercy were revealed...

HalleluYah
Click to expand...
 
Zeke

Zeke

Well-known member
iouae said:
When Christ tells a parable, He makes sure that the parable is simple, and makes one point and one point only. Folks generally go wrong when they try to see multiple points in Christ's parables. And even with only one point, folks had to ask Christ to interpret the parable.

With Paul's parables, Paul makes multiple comparisons. And here, folks do not realise that Paul sometimes has to stretch things a bit to get his multiple points to fit the parable.

Take for instance the comparison (com-parable) of Christ with Adam.

This is entirely a Pauline comparison. Christ never compared himself with Adam.
And Paul is within his rights to make up parables as he sees fit.

And sometimes things don't quite fit so Paul shoehorns the facts a bit to make them fit his parable.

In the Christ=Adam parable here are some less than perfect fits...

Sin did not enter the world by one man - it entered by one woman.

If sin entered the world by Adam, then sin did not enter the world by ONE but by two, viz. Adan AND Eve.

Paul blames the death of all future humans on Adam. Yet Adam played no part in the first human death, which was the death of Abel.
The first man to sin was not the first man to die. Abel, a fairly righteous man, was the first to die. There is no indication that Abel died for his sins.

Paul writes in Rom 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Paul is saying basically that as Adam brought death, Christ brings life.
But where Paul is stretching it is in saying "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners". We all became sinners without any help from Adam. This has led many to falsely claim that somehow sin got passed down from Adam to us in some almost genetic way.

God created dying as the default condition without access to the Tree of Life.
It did not matter if one sinned or not, outside of Eden, all were destined to die. The one thing we can blame Adam and Eve for, is that they got mankind cut off from the Tree of Life.

There cannot be sin without the law (Rom 5:13)
And there cannot be death without sin according to Paul.
So here Paul has a problem, since folks were dying even before the law was given at Sinai.
Paul acknowledges he has a problem in Rom 5:14.

I never have a problem with Paul because I recognise that Paul is prepared to bend the facts a little to fit his analogies. Unfortunately, folks get super-literal when they quote Paul. Especially when Paul seems to be criticising the law. Which Paul does not do. Paul puts the law in its place saying that the law tells us what sin is.

Then Paul tells us what the answer to the problem of sin is - belief in Christ.
Many thought the answer to sin was to try a little harder to keep the law, as if the law could ever give one life.

Since being cut off from the Tree of Life, it does not matter how good you are or how well you keep the law, that will not be a substitute for the Tree of Life.

Which may sound like I am saying one does not have to keep the law. Like Paul, I am NOT saying that. I am saying the alternative is to go cap in hand to God and ask Him for eternal life.
Click to expand...

Adam and Eve is also a parable, parental to other dark sayings revealing light only when introverted Luke 17:20-21, the split/duality is portrayed in like manner from father down to siblings opposed to each other, that "inner conflict" is the substance of all scripture rightly divided 2Cor 3:6, Eph 5:23, 1Cor 3:16 isn't about outward Jew and Gentile being made into one new man, it's about what they represent in man that is married to Christ within not outward marriage, its parabolic shadow, Eph 5:32 the church being our body Colossians 1:27 the dwelling place of God since the foundation of the world, a mystery to you since your foundation and kept secret from you until the soil/heart is prepared to receive it Galatians 4:1-6, the outward history is that bondage, and until it is removed the mystery will stay one, Galatians 4:24.
 
C

clefty

New member
JudgeRightly said:
Eden was Heaven on Earth.

Satan was cast out of Heaven (Eden) because He sinned against his Creator. But he wasn't cast out right away, he was able to cause both Adam and Eve to sin.
Click to expand...

Which day of the week of creation did Satan “sin”? Or was it after the Sabbath which concluded it?
 
P

popsthebuilder

New member
clefty said:
Oops yes...”never knowN of Him”

Before the disobedience of Adam and Eve we only had a war in heaven with Satan cast out and given a planet...

Obviously spiritual war with no death casualties known in conventional warfare...angels with missing leg or wing etc

Death was NOT experienced and only when skins were made from animals which Yah made...

Thus in one act both justice and mercy were exacted...the law requires death despite its no killing prohibition...there had never been a death in Eden or creation prior=Law kept...and now Yah did so...He killed...to give grace and mercy to the offending party...

A foreshadowing of what He now would have to sacrifice to be a just and fair God...

You know the term “if you want it done right do it yourself?” Well there it is...

Yah vindicates Himself as a God by sacrificing Himself...for His own Law He broke...now He is also a GOOD God worthy of free will worship...

As a proven GOOD God He restores AND avenges Himself the doubt His ancient accuser Satan cast on all the universe that He was NOT a good God...

Because of the fortunate fall His wrath AND mercy were revealed...

HalleluYah
Click to expand...
So it is your contention that GOD sent GOD to be a blood sacrifice to GOD?

And you think GOD did this so that GOD could be seen as righteous in the sight of man?

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C

clefty

New member
popsthebuilder said:
So it is your contention that GOD sent GOD to be a blood sacrifice to GOD?
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only after trying everything anything else...He had to do it Himself...the first blood He drew was to cover Adam and Eve...the last blood He shed was His own...to save it all...all that would believe...and obey

And you think GOD did this so that GOD could be seen as righteous in the sight of man?
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not just in the sight of man...ALL OF CREATION...the entire universe recoiled when He killed...there was indeed something important enough to spare these free willed humans...

Imagine if Yah went ahead and started over...poof all of it gone...Satan too and his accusations...would Satan not have been proven correct...that he deserved to replace God as He was NOT a GOOD God...NOT loved from free will...

That accusation would have rung in the back of God’s head for EVER MORE...as true...

But because of this fall...the Mercy and Grace and salvation of Yah were revealed as He patiently waited and then finally sent His only begotten...Yah saved when He sent Son Yahshua (literally means Yah Saves)...and the “I will be” came to be...
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
clefty said:
only after trying everything anything else...He had to do it Himself...the first blood He drew was to cover Adam and Eve...the last blood He shed was His own...to save it all...all that would believe...and obey

not just in the sight of man...ALL OF CREATION...the entire universe recoiled when He killed...there was indeed something important enough to spare these free willed humans...

Imagine if Yah went ahead and started over...poof all of it gone...Satan too and his accusations...would Satan not have been proven correct...that he deserved to replace God as He was NOT a GOOD God...NOT loved from free will...

That accusation would have rung in the back of God’s head for EVER MORE...as true...

But because of this fall...the Mercy and Grace and salvation of Yah were revealed as He patiently waited and then finally sent His only begotten...Yah saved when He sent Son Yahshua (literally means Yah Saves)...and the “I will be” came to be...
Click to expand...
NO


Stop acting like GOD had to try anything.

You are making GOD out to be foolish.
GOD IS ALL KNOWING AND NEVER MADE A MISTAKE WHAT SO EVER.

YOUR FAULT LIES IN BELIEF IN THE TRINITY.

NOR WERE THE ANGELS KILLED.

EVEN THEY ARE ONLY PUNISHED FOR A TERM.

please consider your words and the origins of and the motives behind.

Our merciful GOD is without change and never made any mistake and cannot, being all knowing.



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