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Thread: A Saviour unto Israel

  1. #31
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    Who Is Israel ?

    The True Israel of God is really Jesus Christ..There are scriptures that indicate this i.e Isa 49:1-3

    1Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

    2And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; 3

    And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

    Jesus Christ was the antitype of Jacob or Israel, being the Head and Representative of the whole Israel of God, which is His body, the church.

    The prophecy in Hosea indicates that Jesus Christ is Gods Son Israel
    Hos 11:1

    When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

    Now see how the Holy Spirit applies this too Jesus in Matt 2:15

    And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

    So Israel is all those who are in Union with Gods Son Israel..for they were chosen in Him

    Eph 1:4

    4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    Last edited by beloved57; June 11th, 2013 at 01:37 AM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  2. #32
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    I am the True Vine Israel

    Jn 15:1

    1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

    Jesus here is intimating that He is the True Israel..for vine represents Israel in scripture. Now remember how that the Son out of egypt intimated Jesus as Israel i.e Hos 11:1

    1When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

    Matt 2:15

    15And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

    Now there is more scripture confirmation that this son called out of egypt, which was christ typified, also is typified by a vine, lets look at Ps 80:8

    8Thou hast brought a vine out of Egypt: thou hast cast out the heathen, and planted it.

    This vine out of egypt, is Jesus the True Israel, the True vine of Jn 15: 1

    And it serves to reason, all those chosen in Him before the foundation are the true Sons of Israel..
    Last edited by beloved57; November 16th, 2011 at 11:44 AM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  3. #33
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    Rom 11:28

    Rom 11:28

    28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

    The unbelieving Jews were enemies of the gospel and to all who were true believers, both jew and gentile. For Paul himself as an unbelieving jew was a enemie to those who preached and believed the gospel [ 1 Tim 1:13 ; Acts 9], but as for the election of grace within Israel, these are loved for the promises made to fathers sake, the promises that there would be deliverance for ethnic jews is kept by God in the deliverance of the election of grace within the jewish people, as paul himself was an example of [ Rom 11:1] So this verse here speaks as rom 9:6 contrasting the two Israels, which are Unbelieving Israel the enemies of the gospel [ permanently ] and the remnant which is according to the election of grace, who of course start out as enemies by nature as paul did , but will be delivered or converted to Jesus christ as Paul was.. The remnant along with the believing gentiles is how all Israel will be saved, and at the same time God being Faithful to ethnic Jews who are part of the election of grace..
    Last edited by beloved57; November 16th, 2011 at 11:46 AM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  4. #34
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    When the fulness of the gentiles has come in, it will be no longer time for any to be grafted into the olive tree, at that time [ the end] all Israel shall be saved [ Not National Israel] but all Israel, the Israel of God, all them chosen in the True servant Israel, Jesus christ [ isa 49 ], this is clearly stated rom 11:26. Again Jesus is the Israel of whom the promises pertained [ gal 3:16] also see isa 49:1-3 of which it is said, has a sword in His mouth and His Name is Israel..Isa 49:

    Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me

    from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

    2And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; 3And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

    No doubt this is Jesus christ, and except one is in christ, they are not of the Israel of promise, which again is why paul writes rom 9:6. There was a national external covenant Israel, through the Law [ ex 20], and there is the eternal covenant Israel through election in Jesus christ before the world began, the foreknown rom 11:1..

    Now if Jesus christ is the Israel per Isa 49, Hos 1 ; matt 2:15; and ps 80:8, then the church, His body, is the representation of the body of Israel..

    When the last elect jew or gentile is brought into fellowship with Jesus christ their Head, then the end shall come..
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  5. #35
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    When the fulness of the gentiles has come in, it will be no longer time for any to be grafted into the olive tree, at that time [ the end] all Israel shall be saved [ Not National Israel] but all Israel, the Israel of God, all them chosen in the True servant Israel, Jesus christ [ isa 49 ], this is clearly stated rom 11:26.
    Time for your daily dose. beretard57
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

  6. #36
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    The Fable !

    Titus 1:14

    Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

    The whole concoction of a future restoration of National Israel is premised on mere speculation and spiritual blindness to the truth; for If God did make such a promise, then the promise would be unconditional, and if so, then how and why did He cut her off as branches from the covenant olive tree because of their unbelief ? For that would be absurd and contradicts the very nature of God in being Faithful to His covenant promises in spite of our unbelief per 2 tim 2:

    13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

    But yet the false teaching of today's dispensationalist says just that, that Israel [ the nation] has been rejected only temporarily due to unbelief !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  7. #37
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    The whole concoction of a future restoration of National Israel is premised on mere speculation and spiritual blindness to the truth; for If God did make such a promise, then the promise would be unconditional,
    Actually, it is conditional, as all his prophecy regarding a nation. And don't you think God's predictions are pretty good? He said Israel will repent and turn to him.

    and if so, then how and why did He cut her off as branches from the covenant olive tree because of their unbelief ?
    Because many people shake their fist at God.


    But yet the false teaching of today's dispensationalist says just that, that Israel [ the nation] has been rejected only temporarily due to unbelief !
    Romans 11

    1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

    5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

    8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

    9And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

    10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

    11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

    12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

    25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

    27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


    29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


    beretarded57
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

  8. #38
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    The all Israel that will be saved !

    Rom 11:26

    26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob

    The all Israel that will be saved is the all Israel for which the deliverer came out of zion [ which is Christ the messiah first coming] Isa 59:20

    20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

    The all Israel for whom He went to the cross to redeem per Ps 130:7-8

    7 Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.

    8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

    Isa 44:21-23

    21Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel,[see Isa 49:3] thou shalt not be forgotten of me.

    22I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

    23Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel

    Lk:68

    68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

    This is not carnal Israel, but all the Israel of God, chosen not by race but by Grace in the Israel of God, Jesus Christ. The New Covenant with Israel is inclusive of the fullness of the gentiles and when that is completed, then cometh to pass, and so all Israel shall be saved, by the deliverer that came out of zion..

    This was fulfilled during Jesus Christ first coming, and during His ministry then, He was the King that cometh unto zion..

    Matt 21:1-6

    1And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples,

    2Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an *** tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.

    3And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.

    4All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,

    5Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ***, and a colt the foal of an ***.

    6And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them,

    This turning of Jacob from ungodliness was accomplished by Jesus death on the cross, for it was used of God to turn many ethnic Jews of Israel to God, peter states here Acts 3:25-26

    25Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

    26Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. cp with Rom 11:26

    26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob
    Last edited by beloved57; November 18th, 2011 at 08:39 AM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  9. #39
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    The Gifts and Callings of God

    Rom 11:29

    29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

    For the gifts and callings of God are without repentance; and thats why for the Fathers sake there is a remnant [ Israel of God] in Israel [ National Israel], again thats why Paul, a benjamite, a hebrew of hebrews , was made to see[converted], and thats why he had a good hope that many more of his jewish brethren would be turned to the Lord, they too being of the foreknown of God and the election of grace, of which the rest were broken off in their unbelief.

    Note: When God set aside the National Covenant with Israel as a Nation being the representation of the Kingdom of God on earth as His People, that did not mean He would not still save ethnic Jews by grace..

    You see those that were blinded [ Jn 9:39] were made enemies for the gentiles sake, that the elect remnant of them [ see Acts 15:14-16] may be grafted into the Olive Tree, but in regards to the remnant according to the election of grace [in national Israel], they are beloved for the Fathers sake, because the gifts and the callings of God's own eternal purpose of grace [ 2 Tim 1:9] and not race.

    For God did not repent of His purpose of Judicial blindness unto the nation of Israel [ Jn 9:39] nor of His purpose and calling of the election of grace of the gentiles for james says:

    Acts 15:17-18

    17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

    18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

    This blinding of national Israel and introducing of the gentiles into covenant relationship with the elect remnant of the jews, was all of Gods doing .. Matt 21:42

    Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
    Last edited by beloved57; November 20th, 2011 at 09:13 PM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  10. #40
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    They are not all his that claim they are. This isn't hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Thats not what it says..
    Really? So you changed your mind?

    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Now as we continue the Romans 9 study, we see that Paul in explaining what seems to be a perplexity as to why the Jews are being excluded , most of them, as individuals of that nation. He explains that not all Jews from that nation are truly Jews
    I deleted most of your post, as you were given an infraction for its length.

    You blithering idiot. bestupid57
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

  11. #41
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    nick:

    I deleted most of your post

    Lol..you did..so what is it you dont agree with about post 39 ?
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  12. #42
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    You tell me, beezelbub. I said not all Israel is Israel. And you disputed it. So I showed where you said the same thing.

    You argue for the sake of arguing. Unless it is over your unbiblical cosmic lottery posts.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

  13. #43
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    nick:

    You tell me
    I did not think you had a answer for acripture with all that mouth of yours, and i am teaching a subject you think you know, but you dont..just take notes..
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  14. #44
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    God has not changed towards Israel

    For God has not changed His purpose of Grace towards Israel, for He keeps His covenant faithfulness [ in spite of the rejection of Him by the jews of national Israel] He keeps His promise by converting the remnant according to the election of grace..That is Paul's point in Rom 11:2

    God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. That means there were Jews in Israel He foreknew in their being chosen in Christ and predestinated to the Image of His Son per Rom 8:28


    28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

    29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    So God is Faithful in converting the Jews of the nation who are of the election, and He is Faithful in converting the gentiles of the nations who are of the election..and Gods plan entailed breaking off national Israel for the grafting in of the gentiles..

    So in reality, it is those who believe in some kinda postponement theory [ jewish fable] that have no understanding of Gods immutability, for they fail to see Gods purpose in national Israel fall [ Matt 21:42-43 ] and the grafting in of the gentiles per Acts 15:17-18


    17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

    18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world

    Notice how this calling of the gentiles is associated with the building up of the tabernacle of David vs

    16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

    This building again was in a spiritual way..notice how the terminology of building is used by Paul with the adding of the gentiles to build the temple of God Eph 2:19-22

    19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;


    20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

    21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

    22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit

    We should all know that the temple was built after the pattern of the tabernacle..

    So vs 29 of Romans 11 is emphatically stating that the gifts and callings to the remnant Jews, and the remnant gentiles are without repentance by God; for this is evidenced by the everlasting covenant to Israel has not been annulled by the reject and blindness of National Israel in part, because the election [ within the nation] hath obtained the promises of the everlasting covenant along with the elect gentiles in the world, and this was the Mystery, but now being revealed by the Gospel..
    Last edited by beloved57; November 23rd, 2011 at 09:20 AM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  15. #45
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    Romans 11:32

    Rom 11:32

    32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all

    This is one of the most misunderstood verses in romans, and the false teachers and followers of antichrist have a field day with it wresting it out of context. This verse is in the context of Paul's exposition of the mystery !

    Rom 11:25

    For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    Rom 16:25

    Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

    Eph 3:3

    How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

    And how the unbelief of national Israel [ the partial blindness] was ordered by God for the inclusion or grafting in of the gentiles into Covenant Israel.

    Now by God doing this, the gentiles [ the church] would now be instrumental of God, to call by the preaching of the gospel, the elect Jews of the nation into fellowship with Jesus Christ, as well as the elect gentiles too..In other words, now that national Israel is cut off, the elect Jews in that nation will come to faith in Christ through the preaching of the church, which would now be mainly gentiles. So God has by succession plans concluded both Jew and gentiles under unbelief, in order to Have mercy upon all, all people groups..

    For at first the gentiles for the most part were in unbelief and ignorant to God and the true way of salvation during the OT era..but now under the new covenant era the tide has changed, and now the Jews for the most part are under unbelief, and now God has mercy on the remnant Jews through the ministry of the gentiles or church..

    This was intimated long ago in this prophecy Isa 61:6

    But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

    remember back earlier in Rom 11 this statement ? Rom 11:12

    Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

    The enriching of the gentiles, will fall to the enriching of the elect remnant in national Israel, even though for the most part the many Jews of that nation were blinded..

    But the gentile church, would be used of God up until the end, to call out of national Israel a people for His name sake, as He called out of the gentiles a people for his name sake see Acts 15:14..

    So thats what Paul means in this verse, in having mercy on all.. He shut down earlier the gentiles in unbelief [ OT ] and under the NT He shut down the Jews in unbelief..and He will have mercy upon each people group, for both groups of people contain a remnant according to the election of grace, which are the vessels of mercy, not of the Jews only but also of the gentiles Rom 9:23-24


    23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

    24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
    Last edited by beloved57; November 29th, 2011 at 07:56 AM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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