Jehovah Witness Teaching compared with The Bible
- Thread starter TrevorL
- Start date
I met a JW who has since passed. I have been to a Kingdom Hall. He talked with me about the military or war. It is because he was against it. I grew up a pacifist. I have never been in the military.
If I were to become the President of the United States of America I would be The Commander in Chief or The Commander and Chief (I am honest that I forget how the Constitution reads).
I do not like war. I am against it. I have never been to war. By the definition of Torah though I might be a warrior. I am not strong or big or any thing. I have just been through a lot.
I am Jesus' follower. Or, I am a follower of Jesus. I am His disciple.
Shalom.
Jacob
Do you mean Theology Online of which I am a part or something else?
shalom
jaybird
New member
war is always bad, they always benefit the few at the expense of millions. the people that start the wars never fight in them. if i made a decision that cost someone their life i could not live with the shame of it, the ones that start wars are not humans.
Greetings again KingdomRose,
Kind regards
Trevor
I believe it will be Jesus who will literally stand upon the Mount of Olives, and although it will not be Yahweh, God the Father, Jesus will represent Yahweh in this action. I believe that this will be a fulfillment of Acts 1:11. JWs do not believe that Jesus will literally return to the earth.
Yes I agree that it is Yahweh, God the Father that will send Jesus back to the earth. But Jesus will then no longer be in heaven as Acts 3:20-21 clearly state. JWs teach that Jesus does not literally return, but stays in heaven with the 144,000.
Kind regards
Trevor
I couldn't join the military because I couldn't kill someone. Murder is against the Law. It is against God's Law. Not joining the military is not participating in or with killing people or being associated with those who do. A pacifist could theoretically join the military or be a part of the military or be in the military.
As for war, with or without a military, the only way we could have a war would be with a military, and yet reality and God's Law is not that way. However, though the question of if we need a court and a judge or even a jury to try someone for murder, be it a citizen or a resident or whatnot, a right to a fair trial or whatever terms or terminology it is there is or that we place on it or we place on it does exist (has existed, maybe?), murder of one of our citizens or residents by someone else not a part of our nation or country even in our land on our soil, what do we do about that? We have done something about it and I have said that it was not our military and not our courts or judges. I am not familiar with legal procedure or with that of the courts. But I believe the attacks on 9-11 were attributed to Osama Bin Laden and that he claimed responsibility. If this is not so then what I have believed is a lie. My understanding is that he is now dead whether or not I had a hand in it or not. In this case, someone was murdered, and not directly by the person though by extension of a word command or order or something of the like even training to do something like this if it existed, the impetus to train, etc.... And the punishment for murder is death. Is that killing? Not killing on a battlefield. What I am saying is that I can see that a murderer deserves death even when it is not a neighbor I am supposed to love in my country land nation the United States of America (I am also an Israelite as a proselyte and a convert being Torah Observant and believing in the New Covenant God's law written on minds and hearts for the House of Israel and the House of Judah in Yeshua HaMashiach Jesus the Christ though I have never been to Israel). I would like to be a Rabbi and the President of the United States of America and make aliyah and move to Israel. I do not know if any of these things will happen occur or take place. What I am saying is that I can understand what you are saying even from my conversation with the JW.
Some people play a card game called war. Kids do. But we don't go to war we are just aware of its existence and we say war as a part of the game. I do not play games or cards.
If people fight and others get hurt for it whether the people fighting only use words or not those who fight as a result of what is occurring has occurred or has taken place may see honor in what they are doing and may be viewed as pawns by others but the reality is that everyone needs to understand exactly what is occurring or what has occurred and only make decisions based on what is right not on what they feel or what someone else told them.
Thus, commands and following orders can be a difficult thing to talk about discuss follow or practice. Even knowing what to do and how to do it in life we do not need to seek to kill we need to obey God's commandments and learn about what it means to protect if we need to do so. If it is wrong to do so, okay. If we are supposed to do so maybe that is some growing up maybe it is wrong or maybe it is a part of being human and living according to God's Law. I would like to learn (about) if it is. Love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Thou will keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Thee.
Shalom.
Jacob
Greetings again KingdomRose,
Kind regards
Trevor
I do not know why you consider that the resurrection of the body of Jesus would make his sacrifice null and void. There are various expressions for the sacrifice of Christ, he gave his body, he gave his life, he gave himself, he poured out his soul unto death. The witness to the Jews in Acts 2 was that the tomb was empty, and that God had raised him. He was raised from the dead, meaning his body was made alive again, and changed from a mortal body into an immortal or spirit body. To focus on his body does not take in the full picture. I believe that a spirit body has substance and Jesus' spirit body was the same body changed so that it no longer dependent on food and air, nor blood to live forever. A spirit body is not ethereal or like a ghost.
Kind regards
Trevor
The war is politics and of the world. Jesus says His followers are not of the world.
His followers should not join in the military.
Shalom.
Today is Revi'i (Fourth), 12-27. It is Boker, Morning. It is Yom, Day.
Unfortunately or fortunately I do not know what war you are talking about. I do not know that the United States of America has ever been at war.
You say that the war is politics, and of the world. There will be a day when there is war no longer or war no more. I would not say that it is politics. I do not know what you mean by saying that it is of the world. It is not something that I desire.
By His followers do you mean God's followers or Jesus' followers? I do not think that it is a good think to join the military if you have any reservations about killing anyone or someone, and if you do not or don't you should think seriously about what God's Word or what God's Law says about murder or killing or killing someone. It is against God's Law. It is not love of your neighbor. You are to love your neighbor as yourself.
Now I don't know what justice is for murder or killing, though I believe it is the death penalty. Killing for killing is not how it should go. There are courts, judges. I believe that there is such a thing as a fair trial, for murder.
I know there is something called or about a law of or for witnesses. According to Torah or Torah law there would need to be two or three witnesses (in a capital case). I do not know the difference between capital punishment and corporal punishment. I know enough to know that there is one.
Shalom.
יגקב
KingdomRose
New member
That is awesome! I know you have been on this forum for a long time, and I am always interested in what you have to say. I commend you for being agreeable enough to actually check out a Kingdom Hall, and you conversed with the JW brother. You have the right attitude about war and the military. Jesus taught to be peaceable and even love our enemies (Matt.5:44). In the Tanakh and other O.T. books, Israel is depicted as fighting wars, and indeed they did. But the big difference is....YHWH was telling them what to do, every step of the way. Today is YHWH telling the warring nations what to do? No. They have members of the same religions fighting each other, one on one side and one on the other side. God has no part in these wars.
Keep searching for truth. Jesus said, "Keep on knocking." (Matthew 7:7,8) You are doing well.
KingdomRose
New member
Yes, you are right that we teach that. I don't see that anything in Acts would lead us to believe that Jesus will physically come back to the earth. He lives now in "unapproachable light" (I Timothy 6:16) that no man can see, so why would he leave that glorious spirit realm to come back down to the earth? He has left his physical human life for good. He wouldn't take back his sacrifice.
Shalom.
YHVH our God, He is God. YHVH our God is one.
I don't know what you mean by warring nations or members of the same religions fighting each other.
My point is if there is no Old Covenant today and if or since the Law has not been abolished, yes we love our enemies, but what are we to do according to God's law? Do we do something or nothing? Can Israel we defend itself our self? Does God tell us what to do? What does God's Law say? Are we to follow it (today)? We speak of war and militaries, but what does God's Word say?
I don't know that it says Keep on knocking, but we have now conversed begun a conversation or said our part.
You spoke of the Tanakh. You said other O.T. books. I accept the TaNaK. I do not know what you are talking about. I do know that there is a reading of the Old Covenant. I read study observe keep and teach the Torah. I do not know what the reading of the Old Covenant is. I do not know what the Old Covenant is. The Ten Commandments.
No war. No military.
Yet Israel and the United States of America. For or in Israel do we have a military or is there something according to Torah not by that term or terminology?
War means different things to different people. Some people speak of a conflict. I don't know what the lie is. I do not know what it means to mount a campaign.
We should be making peace. It is among our highest duties. The study of Torah leads to making peace. But the study of Torah is equal to them all, because it leads to them all. Let us learn in order to teach. Let us learn in order to do.
Shalom.
Jacob
The politics are not concern for Jesus' followers.
You dont seem to understand this concept.
I am not into politics. I have no idea what you are saying or what you are talking about.
Greetings again KingdomRose,
Kind regards
Trevor
You certainly have a different perspective. I do not believe that Jesus will establish the Kingdom on earth by remote control, but with hands on. To suggest a parallel concept, when he came down from preaching in Matthew 5-7 he healed a leper by touching him, and thus healed him, something nobody else could do. Rather than nullifying his sacrifice, he will make his sacrifice effective in all the earth until the whole earth is filled with Yahweh’s glory Numbers 14:21, Habakkuk 2:14, Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14, Acts 3:19-21. He was shown in glory at the transfiguration and this is a precursor as to what he will be like at his return in glory 2 Peter 1:16-18.
Kind regards
Trevor
KingdomRose
New member
I'm sorry, I know the Tanakh is all of the O.T. I was thinking of the Torah, the 5 books of Moses. My mistake.
I noticed that you said you are a Christian and follow Jesus. He is the fulfillment of the Law. He also teaches us to be peaceable and show love for even our enemies. There is no place in his congregation for war. Wars are fought without God's direction; they are totally for men's selfish greed.
Do you live in Israel? Find a Kingdom Hall near you! There will be Jews and Arabs worshiping together, with no hatred. Jehovah welcomes ALL nations, and His people come out of all nations to join together in unity. There will be a special celebration on the 31st of March, Nisan 14 on the Jewish calendar. Ask someone at the Kingdom Hall where it will be and what time. You are welcome.