Aleph Tau?

Tigger 2 · Dec 9, 2017

Aleph Tau (or Alef Tav)

I see a lot of nonsense concerning these two Hebrew characters which are found together in the Hebrew OT text thousands of times.

If someone will correct the misconceptions concerning this which are so prominently posted on-line and in some churches, I would appreciate it.

patrick jane · Dec 9, 2017

Tigger 2 said:
Aleph Tau (or Alef Tav)

I see a lot of nonsense concerning these two Hebrew characters which are found together in the Hebrew OT text thousands of times.

If someone will correct the misconceptions concerning this which are so prominently posted on-line and in some churches, I would appreciate it.

Never heard of it, do you have any clues so far?

Tigger 2 · Dec 9, 2017

Just enter "Aleph Tau" into an online search.

Here's a clue: "Aleph" is the first character in the Hebrew alphabet and "Tau" is the last. This would be similar to "Alpha Omega" in the NT Greek alphabet.

chair · Dec 9, 2017

Tigger 2 said:
Aleph Tau (or Alef Tav)

I see a lot of nonsense concerning these two Hebrew characters which are found together in the Hebrew OT text thousands of times.

If someone will correct the misconceptions concerning this which are so prominently posted on-line and in some churches, I would appreciate it.

What nonsense? and please- just spell it out- no clues.

beameup · Dec 10, 2017

For example: it suddenly appears in the Book of Ruth at a key point in the story.
What would a Hebrew sage make of this; what would it "indicate"?

chair · Dec 10, 2017

beameup said:
For example: it suddenly appears in the Book of Ruth at a key point in the story.
What would a Hebrew sage make of this; what would it "indicate"?

Where in Ruth? And why "suddenly"- it is there many times
It is a grammatical thing, with no English equivalent. It doesn't "indicate" anything.

Yoḥanon-benYaʿăqov · Dec 10, 2017

The Particle – אֶת – ʾet or – אֵת – ʾét indicates the Direct Object of a Verb in a sentence. For example in the following sentence – וַיַּשְׁלֵךְ יוֹסֵף אֶת־הַכַּדּוּר – vayyash’léḵ’ Yoséf ʾet-hakaddur – Joseph threw the ball, the direct object is – הַכַּדּוּר – or “the ball.” Here are a couple examples of the same sentence with an indirect object: וַיַּשְׁלֵךְ יוֹסֵף אֶת־הַכַּדּוּר בְּיוֹחָנָן – vayyash’léḵ’ Yoséf ʾet-hakaddur b’Yoḥanan – Joseph threw the ball at John; or – וַיַּשְׁלֵךְ יוֹסֵף אֶת־הַכַּדּוּר לְיוֹחָנָן – vayyash’léḵ’ Yoséf ʾet-hakaddur l’Yoḥanan – Joseph threw the ball to John, or Joseph threw John the ball.

There is also the word – אַתְּ – ʾat’ which means the archaic thou, or the singular form of the modern “you;” and its masculine plural form – אַתּוּן – ʾattun and feminine plural form – אַתֵּין – ʾattéyn which mean ye, or the plural form of the modern “you.”

There are no secret or hidden meanings outside of certain people’s very wild imaginations.

beameup · Dec 10, 2017

chair said:
Where in Ruth? And why "suddenly"- it is there many times
It is a grammatical thing, with no English equivalent. It doesn't "indicate" anything.

Ruth’s name is used 12 times in the book and the first 10 times there is no Aleph/Tav את Symbol in front of her name but after she is redeemed by Boaz the next two times her name is used there is an Aleph/Tav את Symbol in from of her name both times.
Coincidence?
If you consider the book of Ruth a quaint little story with no deeper meaning, then yes.
Many consider the Hebrew language just another invented language of mankind.

chair · Dec 10, 2017

beameup said:
Ruth’s name is used 12 times in the book and the first 10 times there is no Aleph/Tav את Symbol in front of her name but after she is redeemed by Boaz the next two times her name is used there is an Aleph/Tav את Symbol in from of her name both times.
Coincidence?
If you consider the book of Ruth a quaint little story with no deeper meaning, then yes.
Many consider the Hebrew language just another invented language of mankind.

It is not a quaint little story. It is about the ancestors of King David.

The Aleph/Tav את remains a grammatical thing. Quite sorry.

WatchmanOnTheWall · Dec 10, 2017

chair said:
It is not a quaint little story. It is about the ancestors of King David.

The Aleph/Tav את remains a grammatical thing. Quite sorry.

But wait you said this morning; "It is a grammatical thing, with no English equivalent. It doesn't "indicate" anything."

Is this like when 'she' means 'he' or is Ruth an inanimate object? Or is it that you really don't know what you're talking about? perhaps John son of Jacob above could help you? At least he seems to know how Hebrew works, because he is demonstrating it. Which you have not done, yet go around like you do.

beameup · Dec 10, 2017

chair said:
It is not a quaint little story. It is about the ancestors of King David.

Yes, the quaint little story of a Kinsman Redeemer who redeems a Gentile ("bride").

Of course to a non-religious type this is just man-made literature with no "supernatural" creativity involved whatsoever.
And the "Hebrew" is just another archaic language fitting for an ancient agricultural-pastoral society.

chair · Dec 10, 2017

WatchmanOnTheWall said:
But wait you said this morning; "It is a grammatical thing, with no English equivalent. It doesn't "indicate" anything."

Is this like when 'she' means 'he' or is Ruth an inanimate object? Or is it that you really don't know what you're talking about? perhaps John son of Jacob above could help you? At least he seems to know how Hebrew works, because he is demonstrating it. Which you have not done, yet go around like you do.

You are very confused, and apparently upset that somebody knows more than you on a subject. I have never said that "she" means "he". Is lying part of your argument portfolio?

chair · Dec 10, 2017

beameup said:
Yes, the quaint little story of a Kinsman Redeemer who redeems a Gentile ("bride").

Of course to a non-religious type this is just man-made literature with no "supernatural" creativity involved whatsoever.
And the "Hebrew" is just another archaic language fitting for an ancient agricultural-pastoral society.

Label me as you will.
Are you really do desperate to find Jesus in the Old Testament that you need to interpret standard grammatical features as "secret hints"? Don't you find this embarrassing?

WatchmanOnTheWall · Dec 10, 2017

chair said:
You are very confused, and apparently upset that somebody knows more than you on a subject. I have never said that "she" means "he". Is lying part of your argument portfolio?

You're not fooling anyone by ignoring the fact you don't know Hebrew and have been called out on it. My guess is that you have family that can speak Hebrew fluently but you only learnt a smattering and you think you can try to impress people here. Lying doesn't wash on forums, we can see your intentions through your words. like with the Calendar debate, you thought you knew about the Jewish calendar but that fell down the same way. If you became a Christian it would help you in so many ways.

chair · Dec 10, 2017

WatchmanOnTheWall said:
You're not fooling anyone by ignoring the fact you don't know Hebrew and have been called out on it. My guess is that you have family that can speak Hebrew fluently but you only learnt a smattering and you think you can try to impress people here. Lying doesn't wash on forums, we can see your intentions through your words. like with the Calendar debate, you thought you knew about the Jewish calendar but that fell down the same way. If you became a Christian it would help you in so many ways.

Idiot.
I live in Haifa, and have lived here for 30 years.

WatchmanOnTheWall · Dec 11, 2017

chair said:
Idiot.
I live in Haifa, and have lived here for 30 years.

I never doubted that you live in Israel, I believed that part, it's your claim you can understand written Hebrew is what I don't believe. The more you try to insult me the more ridiculous you sound. :troll:

chair · Dec 11, 2017

WatchmanOnTheWall said:
I never doubted that you live in Israel, I believed that part, it's your claim you can understand written Hebrew is what I don't believe. The more you try to insult me the more ridiculous you sound. :troll:

It is convenient to claim that the other guy is not too smart, or illiterate, or whatever, as long as you don't have to face the fact that you are wrong.

WatchmanOnTheWall · Dec 11, 2017

chair said:
It is convenient to claim that the other guy is not too smart, or illiterate, or whatever, as long as you don't have to face the fact that you are wrong.

Nothing wrong with your English, it's your Hebrew, or lack there of, is what I am calling you out on.

chair · Dec 11, 2017

WatchmanOnTheWall said:
Nothing wrong with your English, it's your Hebrew, or lack there of, is what I am calling you out on.

Here we have Chair, who claims to be a Hebrew speaker and reader, who says your ideas are incorrect. That they are based on a lack of understanding of the Hebrew language. You have several options:

1. Learn something about Hebrew. There are many sources online, some of which have been pointed out to you.
2. Ask another Hebrew speaker. One who you trust.
3. Take the easy way out, and claim that Chair is lying.

You choose #3. A simple cop-out.

I started reading Hebrew in 1964.

genuineoriginal · Dec 11, 2017

Tigger 2 said:
Aleph Tau (or Alef Tav)

I see a lot of nonsense concerning these two Hebrew characters which are found together in the Hebrew OT text thousands of times.

If someone will correct the misconceptions concerning this which are so prominently posted on-line and in some churches, I would appreciate it.

Do you know where the misconceptions come from?

Manifestations of את Y’shua the Messiah
There have been other very famous Jewish rabbis down through history that also believed the Aleph Tav was a symbol of the divine, like rabbi Nahum of Gimzo and his pupil, rabbi Akiva that lived during the first century that did extensive research on the Aleph Tav and believed strongly that it was not a word, but a “mark” and was a sign of, or an invitation to, “amplification”. According to the Talmud wherever there is room for amplification there is an invitation to see the sign of a divine intention for some other secret or unwritten meaning. Rabbi Nahum attempted to explain every occurrence of Aleph Tav in the Torah and Akiva built on his work, suggesting that every occurrence is meant to indicate the presence of the Divine Hand. Rabbi Simeon, Akiva’s pupil, refrained from expanding or expounding on the Aleph Tav in the command to have awe for Elohim. Yet Akiva suggests that amplification is indeed possible, since the Aleph Tav directly defines Elohim. Akiva’s idea is that the Aleph Tav is the secret sign of Elohim, the silent cipher or secret code that embraces all the other words of the Torah and indeed of all creation. Born in 50 AD and martyed in 135 AD these words coming from rabbi Akiva are not to be taken lightly for Akiva is one of the greatest figures in Jewish history whose influence and stature is a source of inspiration throughout all of the ages. The saying goes, “Whatever one says about Rabbi Akiva, one can never say enough”. The Talmud (Menachos 29a) compares him favorably to Moses, which is the ultimate compliment in the Jewish lexicon. He is the national hero of the Jewish people for all time.

The first sentence in the Bible begins like this:
בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים אֵת
In the beginning God created Alef Tav

Aleph Tau?

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