Truster is not a liar

Nang said:

Just because you do not share his view or have never been so taught, does not give you or others the right to condemn or ban his scriptural warnings.

Nor does it give any other member the right to call him a liar, without giving proper argument or explanation for disagreeing with his teaching.

IOW's, it is not enough to call him names, vilify, or ridicule him for his sincere warnings and call him a liar just to shut him up.

What if he is indeed wrong? No reason to hate him is there? What harm is done?

But what if he is right?

Click to expand...

What harm is done?? What about people who have lost loved ones in tragic circumstances, children parents, husbands wives, etc. Imagine losing someone you love and then watching someone like truster say that they all received judgement and not only saying that, but showing some kind of twisted delight in it. And when you talk to him about showing compassion for those who have suffered, he calls you evil?

Even if anyone does come under judgement or suffering, we shouldn't ever gloat or judge them. But show them the love of Christ and be there for them and help them if they need our help.

Grosnick Marowbe said:

Hebrews 10:31 states; "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
Since we KNOW that God isn't the author of sin/evil as per 1 John 1:5, "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all," then we must assume that Isaiah 45:7 MUST have a different meaning. I would suggest, that meaning would be; God is a "fearful" administrator of wrath towards those who commit egregious sin and evil.


When we come across a verse of Scripture that SEEMS to contradict the "Character of God" then, we must look deeper for another purpose/meaning. Since it is, against the character of God to "create/cause" sin in any way shape or form we have to conclude that Isaiah 45:7 has a different meaning/purpose than what we may first conclude.

Click to expand...

I don't believe He is the author of sin, either. But God is the giver and taker of life. As creatures, we may not like how He accomplishes it, but it is His to do with as He sees fit. Calamities, disasters, devastation - all these are of God. Even Job attributed to God what the author identifies as being at the hands of Satan. And in doing so, he did not sin or charge God foolishly (Job 1:22). Isaiah 46 says God uses other agents to have His will done - but that His is the will being accomplished. He does all His pleasure (Isaiah 46:10).

Even reason says that for God to be removed from calamity is to distance Himself and make Him more Deist than we should be comfortable with. If He removes His hand of restraint, then all evil will certainly break loose. So if He is not in the things which occur, then He is a mere reacting agent - reacting to His creation rather than administering it. We would look in vain to find meaning in what we call tragedy.

nikolai_42 said:

I don't believe He is the author of sin, either. But God is the giver and taker of life. As creatures, we may not like how He accomplishes it, but it is His to do with as He sees fit. Calamities, disasters, devastation - all these are of God. Even Job attributed to God what the author identifies as being at the hands of Satan. And in doing so, he did not sin or charge God foolishly (Job 1:22). Isaiah 46 says God uses other agents to have His will done - but that His is the will being accomplished. He does all His pleasure (Isaiah 46:10).

Even reason says that for God to be removed from calamity is to distance Himself and make Him more Deist than we should be comfortable with. If He removes His hand of restraint, then all evil will certainly break loose. So if He is not in the things which occur, then He is a mere reacting agent - reacting to His creation rather than administering it. We would look in vain to find meaning in what we call tragedy.

Click to expand...

Then, you're assuming that God is "Strategizing," behind the scenes, devastating earthquakes, Tornadoes, etc. That is YOUR opinion of what Scripture is saying. Like I previously stated, sin and the fall of man have placed our world into a vulnerable position that, in turn, allows for such devastation, crime, evil, etc. You and I must, "agree to disagree."

If man had not sinned and the "Garden of Eden" would have continued to remain, there would have been NO earthquakes, Tornadoes, crime, death, etc, in this world. However, that isn't the case. Our world is suffering the consequences of Adams sin/fall.

Epoisses said:

God controls everything behind the scenes good and bad.

Click to expand...

Hmmm.
Like a puppet master.
The puppets (creation) can make no move unless the puppet master (GOD) controls his move.

I guess if the fire from heaven fell on some city tomorrow we would write that off as some global warming event!

Click to expand...

Not if everything good or bad is directly controlled by GOD.
Fire from heaven demolishing a city of people - GOD made that happen.
Child molestation - GOD made that happen.
Buying lotto tickets and winning - GOD made that happen.
Satan trying his best to deceive the world - GOD made that happen.
Got a promotion at work - GOD made that happen.
etc.


I'm not sure that's the way we should be viewing GOD.

Care to elaborate on what "control" of all good and bad entails?

There is NO mention of climate disturbances or other negative activity occurring in the book of Genesis, relating to the Garden of Eden. Only after the fall do we see negative effects.

marhig said:

What harm is done?? What about people who have lost loved ones in tragic circumstances, children parents, husbands wives, etc. Imagine losing someone you love and then watching someone like truster say that they all received judgement and not only saying that, but showing some kind of twisted delight in it. And when you talk to him about showing compassion for those who have suffered, he calls you evil?

Even if anyone does come under judgement or suffering, we shouldn't ever gloat or judge them. But show them the love of Christ and be there for them and help them if they need our help.

Click to expand...

Not sure you can be confident that Truster was showing glee, however.....

Exodus 23:19, You shall not boil a kid in its mother's milk

Tambora said:

Hmmm.
Like a puppet master.
The puppets (creation) can make no move unless the puppet master (GOD) controls his move.


Not if everything good or bad is directly controlled by GOD.
Fire from heaven demolishing a city of people - GOD made that happen.
Child molestation - GOD made that happen.
Buying lotto tickets and winning - GOD made that happen.
Satan trying his best to deceive the world - GOD made that happen.
Got a promotion at work - GOD made that happen.
etc.


I'm not sure that's the way we should be viewing GOD.

Care to elaborate on what "control" of all good and bad entails?

Click to expand...

Epoisses seems to believe, God is orchestrating the evil and the good that occurs on planet earth. He must be a Calvinist.

Grosnick Marowbe said:

If man had not sinned and the "Garden of Eden" would have continued to remain, there would have been NO earthquakes, Tornadoes, crime, death, etc, in this world. However, that isn't the case. Our world is suffering the consequences of Adams sin/fall.

Click to expand...

I'm thinkin' there was crime and death before the flood.

Pretty sure the garden was still there at least up to that point also.

Grosnick Marowbe said:

Then, you're assuming that God is "Strategizing," behind the scenes, devastating earthquakes, Tornadoes, etc. That is YOUR opinion of what Scripture is saying. Like I previously stated, sin and the fall of man have placed our world into a vulnerable position that, in turn, allows for such devastation, crime, evil, etc. You and I must, "agree to disagree."

Click to expand...

Strategizing? No. Are we seeing the working out of His plan? Yes. Just like He showed Daniel what the several world empires would be (ahead of time, but all at once), these things are foreordained. I don't see it as the working out of automatic responses, but something far more complex and beyond our understanding of predestination. In other words, man plans his ways but God directs his steps. There is a realm in which man has autonomy to some degree - but that realm isn't the working out of things. Man may have something like a free will - but it is more bound than he realizes and more limited (and shaped) by innumerable external forces (as well as internal forces).

When God directed Satan to Job, was God responsible for what Satan did? But there is no way Satan could have done what he did until :

a) God removed the hedge(s) around Job
b) God permitted Satan to afflict Job
c) God said "thus far and no further"

Man tries to rescue God's reputation by distancing Him from calamity - but God says we can't understand His ways. If God reacts, He is playing chess with someone. If He administers and directs, sets bounds and even "suggests"...He is the one in control.

1Mind1Spirit said:

Not sure you can be confident that Truster was showing glee, however.....

Exodus 23:19, You shall not boil a kid in its mother's milk

Click to expand...

Some of the things that truster has been saying are heartless. Showing zero compassion and yes he gloats at the tragedy of others.

Children died in the Manchester bombing, and truster had no compassion whatsoever. He seemed to be overly happy saying "God's judgement had come upon Manchester" No Gods judgement didn't, an evil suicide bomber blew those people up , including young children. People who act like this are not showing a heart of Christ. Truster has even been praying to God for the end of time to come quickly!! Those born of God would be praying to God for as many to be saved by Christ as possible and have the same heart as Abraham, hoping to bring even ten out of sodom. And that's what our hearts should be like once we belong to Christ. Not acting the way truster does.

This just came to mind.

Paul had to pray for the guy who had worked himself to near death rather than lay hands on him and heal him.

He knew and loved the guy and his prayers were answered.

I wonder if we really loved those folks in the way of that hurricane if we could have petitioned God to steer it another way.

As for myself I didn't give a damn enough to even try.

marhig said:

Some of the things that truster has been saying are heartless. Showing zero compassion and yes he gloats at the tragedy of others.

Children died in the Manchester bombing, and truster had no compassion whatsoever. He seemed to be overly happy saying "God's judgement had come upon Manchester" No Gods judgement didn't, an evil suicide bomber blew those people up , including young children. People who act like this are not showing a heart of Christ. Truster has even been praying to God for the end of time to come quickly!! Those born of God would be praying to God for as many to be saved by Christ as possible and have the same heart as Abraham, hoping to bring even ten out of sodom. And that's what our hearts should be like once we belong to Christ. Not acting the way truster does.

Click to expand...

King James Bible
He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

1Mind1Spirit said:

This just came to mind.

Paul had to pray for the guy who had worked himself to near death rather than lay hands on him and heal him.

He knew and loved the guy and his prayers were answered.

I wonder if we really loved those folks in the way of that hurricane if we could have petitioned God to steer it another way.

As for myself I didn't give a damn enough to even try.

Click to expand...

I prayed half the night for God to spare the lives of those in florida after reading posts on another site where people were praying and asking for everyone else to pray for them or their families. I couldn't sleep and my heart went out to them.

I didn't really hear much about the hurricane until it was ready to hit florida as I don't watch the news much. But my heart goes out to everyone who has suffered loss of loved ones or have been badly injured.

marhig said:

I prayed half the night for God to spare the lives of those in florida after reading posts on another site where people were praying and asking for everyone else to pray for them or their families. I couldn't sleep and my heart went out to them.

I didn't really hear much about the hurricane until it was ready to hit florida as I don't watch the news much. But my heart goes out to everyone who has suffered loss of loved ones or have been badly injured.

Click to expand...

Cool.

I would like to have more compassion.

Grosnick Marowbe said:

There is NO mention of climate disturbances or other negative activity occurring in the book of Genesis, relating to the Garden of Eden. Only after the fall do we see negative effects.

Click to expand...

Yep, "by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;"

Tambora said:

Hmmm.
Like a puppet master.
The puppets (creation) can make no move unless the puppet master (GOD) controls his move.


Not if everything good or bad is directly controlled by GOD.
Fire from heaven demolishing a city of people - GOD made that happen.
Child molestation - GOD made that happen.
Buying lotto tickets and winning - GOD made that happen.
Satan trying his best to deceive the world - GOD made that happen.
Got a promotion at work - GOD made that happen.
etc.


I'm not sure that's the way we should be viewing GOD.

Care to elaborate on what "control" of all good and bad entails?

Click to expand...

Change 'made' to 'allowed' genius. God could prevent those things but he often doesn't. He allows sinners to reap what they sow to lead them to repentance. You do stupid things and you get stupid consequences.

glorydaz said:

Yep, "by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;"

Gen. 3:17-18 ....."cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee;...​

Click to expand...

I rather think that ole garden got choked with thorns and thistles as well as the way in.

Epoisses said:

Change 'made' to 'allow' genius.

Click to expand...

Easy big fella, she said she wasn't sure.

1Mind1Spirit said:

Easy big fella, she said she wasn't sure.

Click to expand...

Can't even give me a minute to edit my post.