What the MSM won't ever tell you about Putin

ClimateSanity

New member
The following is adapted from a speech delivered on February 15, 2017, at a Hillsdale College National Leadership Seminar in Phoenix, Arizona.

Vladimir Putin is a powerful ideological symbol and a highly effective ideological litmus test. He is a hero to populist conservatives around the world and anathema to progressives. I don’t want to compare him to our own president, but if you know enough about what a given American thinks of Putin, you can probably tell what he thinks of Donald Trump.

Let me stress at the outset that this is not going to be a talk about*what*to think about Putin, which is something you are all capable of making up your minds on, but rather*how*to think about him. And on this, there is one basic truth to remember, although it is often forgotten. Our globalist leaders may have deprecated sovereignty since the end of the Cold War, but that does not mean it has ceased for an instant to be the primary subject of politics.

Vladimir Vladimirovich is not the president of a feminist NGO. He is not a transgender-rights activist. He is not an ombudsman appointed by the United Nations to make and deliver slide shows about green energy. He is the elected leader of Russia—a rugged, relatively poor, militarily powerful country that in recent years has been frequently humiliated, robbed, and misled. His job has been to protect his country’s prerogatives and its sovereignty in an international system that seeks to erode sovereignty in general and views Russia’s sovereignty in particular as a threat.

By American standards, Putin’s respect for the democratic process has been fitful at best. He has cracked down on peaceful demonstrations. Political opponents have been arrested and jailed throughout his rule. Some have even been murdered—Anna Politkovskaya, the crusading Chechnya correspondent shot in her apartment building in Moscow in 2006; Alexander Litvinenko, the spy poisoned with polonium-210 in London months later; the activist Boris Nemtsov, shot on a bridge in Moscow in early 2015. While the evidence connecting Putin’s own circle to the killings is circumstantial, it merits scrutiny.

Yet if we were to use*traditional*measures for understanding leaders, which involve the defense of borders and national flourishing, Putin would count as the pre-eminent statesman of our time. On the world stage, who can vie with him? Only perhaps Recep Tayyip Erdoğan of Turkey.

When Putin took power in the winter of 1999-2000, his country was defenseless. It was bankrupt. It was being carved up by its new kleptocratic elites, in collusion with its old imperial rivals, the Americans. Putin changed that. In the first decade of this century, he did what Kemal Atatürk had done in Turkey in the 1920s. Out of a crumbling empire, he rescued a nation-state, and gave it coherence and purpose. He disciplined his country’s plutocrats. He restored its military strength. And he refused, with ever blunter rhetoric, to accept for Russia a subservient role in an American-run world system drawn up by foreign politicians and business leaders. His voters credit him with having saved his country.

The rest of the article can be found here:

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/how-to-think-about-vladimir-putin/
 

ClimateSanity

New member
Can you tell me one thing he said that was false?

So, he wasn't thorough enough to your liking? He wasn't long on the bad stuff Putin has done and his topic was not the KGB or spies. His theme was to show the context of the Russian state and sovereignty and how Putin has managed to keep both intact despite severe odds to the contrary. If state sovereignty and the menace of globalism is of no concern to you, then the article is not for you.
 

jsanford108

New member
The following is adapted from a speech delivered on February 15, 2017, at a Hillsdale College National Leadership Seminar in Phoenix, Arizona.

Vladimir Putin is a powerful ideological symbol and a highly effective ideological litmus test. He is a hero to populist conservatives around the world and anathema to progressives. I don’t want to compare him to our own president, but if you know enough about what a given American thinks of Putin, you can probably tell what he thinks of Donald Trump.

Let me stress at the outset that this is not going to be a talk about*what*to think about Putin, which is something you are all capable of making up your minds on, but rather*how*to think about him. And on this, there is one basic truth to remember, although it is often forgotten. Our globalist leaders may have deprecated sovereignty since the end of the Cold War, but that does not mean it has ceased for an instant to be the primary subject of politics.

Vladimir Vladimirovich is not the president of a feminist NGO. He is not a transgender-rights activist. He is not an ombudsman appointed by the United Nations to make and deliver slide shows about green energy. He is the elected leader of Russia—a rugged, relatively poor, militarily powerful country that in recent years has been frequently humiliated, robbed, and misled. His job has been to protect his country’s prerogatives and its sovereignty in an international system that seeks to erode sovereignty in general and views Russia’s sovereignty in particular as a threat.

By American standards, Putin’s respect for the democratic process has been fitful at best. He has cracked down on peaceful demonstrations. Political opponents have been arrested and jailed throughout his rule. Some have even been murdered—Anna Politkovskaya, the crusading Chechnya correspondent shot in her apartment building in Moscow in 2006; Alexander Litvinenko, the spy poisoned with polonium-210 in London months later; the activist Boris Nemtsov, shot on a bridge in Moscow in early 2015. While the evidence connecting Putin’s own circle to the killings is circumstantial, it merits scrutiny.

Yet if we were to use*traditional*measures for understanding leaders, which involve the defense of borders and national flourishing, Putin would count as the pre-eminent statesman of our time. On the world stage, who can vie with him? Only perhaps Recep Tayyip Erdoğan of Turkey.

When Putin took power in the winter of 1999-2000, his country was defenseless. It was bankrupt. It was being carved up by its new kleptocratic elites, in collusion with its old imperial rivals, the Americans. Putin changed that. In the first decade of this century, he did what Kemal Atatürk had done in Turkey in the 1920s. Out of a crumbling empire, he rescued a nation-state, and gave it coherence and purpose. He disciplined his country’s plutocrats. He restored its military strength. And he refused, with ever blunter rhetoric, to accept for Russia a subservient role in an American-run world system drawn up by foreign politicians and business leaders. His voters credit him with having saved his country.

The rest of the article can be found here:

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/how-to-think-about-vladimir-putin/

I think this is a great post.
While I disagree with the paragraph about Putin's opposition being killed off (which the author then adds, it is at least worthy of scrutiny; so, I will let that slide), the remainder of the article is very accurate.

A simple listing of facts, in order to develop a reasonable conclusion.
 

ClimateSanity

New member
I think this is a great post.
While I disagree with the paragraph about Putin's opposition being killed off (which the author then adds, it is at least worthy of scrutiny; so, I will let that slide), the remainder of the article is very accurate.

A simple listing of facts, in order to develop a reasonable conclusion.
Welcome to TOL. You're reasonableness is refreshing
 

ClimateSanity

New member
Incredible. How would you feel about Stalin?
I think he was a murderous communist thug. You and him share the Communist label. I don't believe the article actually calls Putin a great honest, moral man. What did it say about Putin that was so shocking to you?
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
Can you tell me one thing he said that was false?

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kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
Can you tell me one thing he said that was false?

So, he wasn't thorough enough to your liking? He wasn't long on the bad stuff Putin has done and his topic was not the KGB or spies. His theme was to show the context of the Russian state and sovereignty and how Putin has managed to keep both intact despite severe odds to the contrary. If state sovereignty and the menace of globalism is of no concern to you, then the article is not for you.

Maybe globalism should be concerning in some aspects but are Duterte, Putin, and Trump the best crusaders you got? That's not a great lineup. :eek:
 

jsanford108

New member
I'm asking for whatever 'reasonable conclusion' you referenced in your post. :idunno:

I would say the conclusion that one could make is that Putin is good for Russia. He promotes Russia and puts the needs of Russia before the needs of the rest of the world.

The article didn't really have a "conclusion" or bias within it. It was just an unbiased assembly of facts. It left inference up to the reader. Hence, my statement of it allowing for reasonable conclusion, aka: no bias input.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Interesting analysis here:

Does Vladimir Putin kill journalists?

Spoiler
The journalists

Finally, we wanted to provide more details about individual journalists murdered in Russia since 2000. Deaths marked with an asterisk (*) are not a part of our tally of 34 deaths because they are not classified as homicides by authorities or watchdog groups, but have aroused suspicions:
• March 9, 2000: Prominent investigative journalist Artyom Borovik* died in a mysterious plane crash. According to the official investigation, de-icing fluid was not applied, the plane departed without permission and take-off devices were improperly used. Many suspect these were not accidents, given Borovik’s criticism of Putin. Borovik became famous in the west for his reporting on war in Afghanistan, was a correspondent for 60 Minutes, and launched several investigative publications and TV programs that consistently criticized Putin’s regime.
• July 16, 2000: Igor Domnikov, an editor and reporter for the independent Novaya Gazeta who covered local government corruption, died after being attacked. His assailants are serving prison terms but the ex-government official who orchestrated the attack was not convicted.
• July 26, 2000: Sergey Novikov, the owner of the independent radio station Vesna, was shot in his apartment. Novikov was a vocal critic of local government corruption and received death threats prior to his murder. The case remains unsolved.
• Sept. 21, 2000: Radio Liberty correspondent Iskandar Khatloni died from an attack by an unknown assailant. Khatloni, who was also a poet and former BBC correspondent, was covering human rights abuses in Chechnya. The case remains unsolved.
• Oct. 3, 2000: Sergey Ivanov, the director of the independent and influential TV station Lada, was shot in his apartment. The case remains unsolved.
• Nov. 21, 2000: Cameraman Adam Tepsurgayev, who shot most of Reuters’ footage from the second Chechen conflict, was shot dead in a Chechen village. The Russian government contends that Chechen guerrillas murdered Tepsurgayev, but local residents were doubtful. The case remains unsolved.
• Feb. 3, 2001: Photographer Valery Kondakov was killed after the publication of photos he took of the private mansions of urban elite in the city of Armavir. The case remains unsolved.
• Sept. 18, 2001: Eduard Markevich, the editor and publisher of a local newspaper, was shot in the back after receiving threats and surviving a previous attack. Markevich frequently wrote about local corruption and the suspected perpetrators of his murder are government officials. The case remains unsolved.
• March 9, 2002: Natalya Skryl, a local business reporter, died from an attack. She was planning to publish an article on the struggle for the control of a local metal plant. The case remains unsolved.
• April 29, 2002: Valery Ivanov, editor of the independent newspaper Tolyatinskoye Obozreniye, was shot eight times in the head. His newspaper is known for his coverage of local organized crime, drug trafficking and corruption. The case remains unsolved.
• April 18, 2003: Dmitry Shvets, the deputy director of the independent television station TV-21, known for his critical reporting on politicians, was shot dead outside the station’s offices. He had been investigating a mayoral candidate’s links to organized crime. The case remains unsolved.
• July 3, 2003: Novaya Gazeta deputy editor Yuri Shchekochikhin died from an acute allergic reaction while those close to him believe he was poisoned. Shchekochikhin was working on a corruption case involving high-ranking government officials and had received threats. The government has not opened an investigation and says there’s no evidence of foul play.
• July 3, 2003: Local television reporter Alikhan Guliyev was shot in his apartment building. Guliyev had accused an influential politician of campaign violations, and had survived an attempt on his life in 2002. The case remains unsolved.
• Oct. 9, 2003: A year after the murder of his predecessor Valery Ivanov, Tolyatinskoye Obozreniye editor Aleksei Sidorov was stabbed by two unknown assailants after receiving threats. Officials initially agreed he was murdered in retaliation for his investigative work, but the case remains unsolved.
• July 9, 2004: Forbes Russia founding editor Paul Klebnikov was shot in Moscow in a contract killing. The magazine had recently published a feature on Russia’s richest people, and Klebnikov himself had written books and articles about business, crime and corruption in Russia. A decade after his death, the case remains unsolved, prompting Secretary of State John Kerry to urge Russia to bring the perpetrators to justice.
• May 21, 2005: Cameraman Pavel Makeev, while reporting on illegal drag racing, was found dead on the side of a road. Though his death was initially classified as a traffic accident, Makeev’s colleagues say his death was related to his work. The case has been reopened but remains unsolved.
• June 28, 2005: Magomedzagid Varisov, who wrote critical political columns for the weekly Novoye Delo, was shot in his car by unknown assailants with machine guns in Dagestan. Varisov had received numerous threats through years. Three suspects were killed in October 2005, and the unsolved case was closed.
• Jan. 8, 2006: Reporter Vagif Kochetkov, who wrote for the the newspapers Trud and Tulskii Molodoi Kommunar, died from an attack. Officials labeled his death the result of a robbery, though only work-related documents and his cellphone were taken, while his wallet and fur coat were not. A local businessman was charged with the attack but later said he was coerced into confessing.
• Oct. 7, 2006: Renowned journalist and human rights activist Anna Politkovskayawas shot in her apartment after receiving, and narrowingly escaping, numerous death threats. The five men hired to kill her were convicted and sentenced seven years later, but whoever ordered the murder (believed to be $150,000 contract) remains unknown.
• Nov. 30, 2006: Prominent investigative journalist Maksim Maksimov was declared dead. He disappeared two years earlier while investigating local corruption in St. Petersburg as well as several unsolved murders. The case remains unsolved.
• March 2, 2007: Defense correspondent Ivan Safronov died from mysteriously falling from a fifth-floor window while investigating the sale of Russian arms to Syria and Iran. Safronov embarrassed military officials with reports on problems with Russia’s nuclear program. His death has been officially ruled a suicide, but his colleagues and friends say he had no reason to kill himself.
• Aug. 31, 2008: Magomed Yevloyev, owner of the independent news site Ingushetia, was shot while in police custody. Officials had been attempting to close down Ingushetia for extremism; the site had covered corruption, human rights abuses, unsolved murders, and voting fraud in the 2008 presidential election. Yevloyev was detained as a witness in investigation of a local explosion, and police say the shooting was an accident.
• Sept. 2, 2008: Television editor Telman (Abdulla) Alishayev was shot by unknown assailants in Dagestan. Alishayev produced an anti-radical Islam documentary two years earlier and received death threats from radical groups.
• Jan. 4, 2009: Advertising manager Vladislav Zakharchuk* died in a fire set in the offices of the opposition newspaper Arsenyevskiye Vesti, known for its criticism of local authorities. The cause of the fire is suspected to the arson.
• Jan. 19, 2009: Anastasia Baburova, a freelancer for the opposition newspaperNovaya Gazeta, was shot by ultranationalists in a double murder. Baburova had covered the rise of neo-Nazism and race-motivated crimes in Moscow. Her murderers, members of a neo-Nazi group, have been sentenced.
• March 30, 2009: Layout designer Sergei Protazanov died after an attack by unknown assailants. Protazanov was part of the editorial staff of Grazhdanskoe sogalsie, a newspaper known for its critical coverage of the ruling party of Russia. The case remains unsolved.
• July 15, 2009: The fifth Novaya Gazeta journalist murdered since 2000, Natalya Estemirova was kidnapped and shot execution-style in Chechnya. Her colleagues believe that Chechen officials ordered the Kremlin-backed assassination, as Estemirova had reported on human rights violations committed by authorities in the region. The official investigation pinned the murder a Chechen rebel who was killed by an air strike, but her colleagues and human rights activists believe this is a cover-up.
• Aug. 11, 2009: Abdulmalik Akhmedilov, an editor for the independent news website Hakikat and editor-in-chief of the political monthly Sogratl, was shot in his car in Dagestan. Akhmedilov was critical of government efforts to curb religious and political freedom and inaction in investigating assassinations. The case remains unsolved.
• Nov. 16, 2009: Broadcast journalist Olga Kotovskaya* fell to her death from a 14th floor window. Kotovskaya, co-founder of the independent TV station Kaskad, was currently fighting for control over the station with a former vice governor. Officials ruled her death a suicide, but watchdog groups are doubtful.
• Dec. 15, 2011: Independent newspaper founder Gadzhimurad Kamalov was shot outside his office in Dagestan. His newspaper Chernovik was known for its investigations in government corruption, police abuse and Islamic extremism, and his name appeared on an anonymous hit list.
• Feb. 7, 2012: Newspaper editor Victor Aphanasenko* died after sustaining a mysterious head injury in his house. Officials say he slipped, but colleagues believe it was no accident. Aphanasenko’s paper, Prestupnost I Korruptsiya, had been investigating ground raids in southern Russia.
• Dec. 5, 2012: News anchor Kazbek Gekkiyev, who covered social issues, was shot in the head while returning home from work. Several reporters at his state-controlled station, VGTRK, had received threats allegedly from Islamist separatist fighters.
• April 8, 2013: Mikhail Beketov, founding editor of the Khimiki, died after a 2008 attack by unknown assailants that left him severely brain-damaged, amputated and unable to speak. Beketov had covered government corruption and the planned destruction of the Khimki forest to make way for a planned toll road. In retaliation for his reporting, his car had been set on fire and his dog left dead on his doorstep. He never fully recovered from the attack and died five years later in the hospital.
• May 18, 2013: Nikolai Potapov, a former government official and founding editor of the local Selsovet newspaper, was shot in the Stavropol region. Selsovet was known for its coverage of government corruption.
• July 9, 2013: Akhmednabi Akhmednabiye, deputy editor of the independent newspaper Novoye Delo, was shot dead outside his house in Dagestan. He covered government corruption, abductions, police abuse and torture and had received numerous threats for his work. His name appeared on an anonymous hit list.
• Dec. 4, 2013: Arkady Lander, editor of the opposition newspaper Mestnaya, died after an 2010 attack by unknown assailants in Sochi. He underwent operations and hospitalizations for three years after his attack, which left him amputated and with a fractured skull. Lander had covered local elections and distributed his newspaper free of charge. The statute of limitations ran out on his case.
• Aug. 1, 2014: The body of independent journalist and civil activist Timur Kuashevwas discovered in the woods after he disappeared a day earlier. Kuashev was threatened by police after reporting on civil liberty and human rights violations by security forces.
 

Danoh

New member
That fool OP is one example after another of the basic five practices of many within the so called "Right..."

1. Deflect.

2. Exploit politeness.

3. Pass the buck.

4. Make things up.

5. In short, Trumpian self-delusion.

Cracked me up, the absolute nonsense of that article in your OP, Climate.

Tip of the iceberg, actual fact of the matter?

The following rebutal of that article's self-delusion, deflection, exploiting of politeness, passing the buck, making things up, etc., should serve as a warning of...

How NOT To Think About Vladimir Putin

...why it’s dangerous for conservatives to delude themselves into thinking Putin is anything more than a drearily familiar twentieth-century-style autocrat and gangster....

For the rest of this rebuttal, click on the link below...

http://thefederalist.com/2017/03/29/not-think-vladimir-putin/
 
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