ECT The Rebellion that Desolates

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SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

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Interplanner said:
The abomination that desolates is first of all a grammatical phrase in which there is cause and effect. There has to be an evil thing and what it does results in the destruction of the country.

The expression starts, however, as 'the rebellion that desolates' in 8:13. By starts I mean that this is the first spot where this kind of expression is used in Biblical language, the last being the Mt 24 and parallels.

When the 4th of the kingdoms in succession comes, there is a rebellion lead by an exceedingly evil person against the 4th kingdom over Israel, and his rebellion ruins the country. He makes blasphemous claims and bites off more than he can chew.

In ch 9, the same is called the 'abomination' that does that. We learn that it will happen in about 490 years in events that are overwhelmingly catastrophic for Israel, while the prince of that 4th kingdom over Israel is there. Also we learn that Messiah will be cut off (die) but that death will accomplish several redemptive things at the same time. Ie, Israel is destroyed but Messiah succeeds.

The end of this event will sweep the country 'like a flood.' That means it was the most devastating thing to happen since the Noah cataclysm, and the destruction of Israel in the 1st century was indeed one of the epic destructive events of antiquity.

The only expression of Daniel which Jesus quoted on was the AofD. He said that when you see him operating in the temple, get out of the country.

It had to be something a person from Israel would do (to be an abomination) and we know that it was first called a rebellion. And it had to indeed ruin the country. And happen in the 490 year era. That means it was the destruction by the zealot/Judaizer rebellion in Judea in that generation of Christ.

The whole period from the rebellion of Judas (not the disciple but certainly a name-coincidence) in 6 AD (about the census) to the event of Masada is often called the Great Revolt in Israel's history, the last 7 years being called the Jewish War.

But it is the person seizing the temple and using it for this supposed divine-assisted revolt by scandalous followers of Judaism that is the AofD. There were 3 factions among the zealots after Titus resumed the siege of Jerusalem in 68, allowing his father Vespasian to rule the Eastern Empire: John of Gischala (in Galilee); Simon bar Giora and a third by Phineas. These three fought each other for control of Jerusalem, but only managed to weaken any hope for victory. John of Gischala won out; but any of the 3 would have been the AofD signal to leave.

However, as you know, Lk 21 does not say the person is the signal, but simply that when the city is surrounded that the Christians were to leave. (It doesn't say the surrounding is the AofD; it simply says it is time to leave). This was a problem at first in 67. Because Vespasian's encirclement was too tight. But the civil dispute in Rome interrupted the siege work in 67. Vespasian left and the control was relaxed. Many Christians left Jerusalem at that time and regathered in Pella, a Greek-speaking city.

As Lk 13 asks, 'how can you with an army of 10,000, take on an army of 20,000? Shouldn't you seek 'terms of peace' instead?' Lk 19 then says Israel would not seek 'terms of peace' and would be destroyed because of that. The AofD was the cocky and scandalous and willful act of the leader(s) of the Jewish revolt of that period to think God would help them fight off Rome, in the most pathetic of conditions. It was total folly and a total failure.
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Reread this, and it is still humanistic hogwash, and rank unbelief.
 
I

Interplanner

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Right Divider said:
:mock: So it is he who shall remain nameless?
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We already know that not everything turned out from Thess as Paul said. Not exactly. But what happened was covered by Paul about the climax of the revolt and the destruction of the city, yes. Do you understand the 3 part outcome of this that is mentioned in the OP? Why don't you just read the OP?

What are going to ask me to do next for you? Breathe?
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
We already know that not everything turned out from Thess as Paul said. Not exactly. But what happened was covered by Paul about the climax of the revolt and the destruction of the city, yes. Do you understand the 3 part outcome of this that is mentioned in the OP? Why don't you just read the OP?

What are going to ask me to do next for you? Breathe?
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Made up. So, who was he?
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

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SaulToPaul said:
Daniel 8
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.



The abomination of desolation



Daniel 9
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


The abomination of desolation



Daniel 11
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.


The abomination of desolation.
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Reiteration for the Bible believers of TOL.
None of this has happened yet.
 
I

Interplanner

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Right Divider said:
So now you're accusing Paul of being a false prophet?
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The 2nd coming has not taken place as quickly as he said many times, for ex., I Cor 7. But we know why. As for the events of 70 when the place burst into flames, it wasn't quite like he said, and Josephus mentioned other inexplicable things gratis (I assume you know what that means--he had no reason to make them strange, and he heard the reported several times), but the upshot was that the man of sin was defeated, and the full wrath of God came upon Israel, as Thess said, and only the 2nd coming did not take place and the day of judgement.

RD, I've heard everything you are going to say 1000x. You might wait until you have something original to say, but I'm not interested in all the usual explanations that are either cheesy or total flops about certain passages, like Rev 3:21 and Christ not being seated already (yours earlier today).
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
The 2nd coming has not taken place as quickly as he said many times, for ex., I Cor 7. But we know why. As for the events of 70 when the place burst into flames, it wasn't quite like he said, and Josephus mentioned other inexplicable things gratis (I assume you know what that means--he had no reason to make them strange, and he heard the reported several times), but the upshot was that the man of sin was defeated, and the full wrath of God came upon Israel, as Thess said, and only the 2nd coming did not take place and the day of judgement.

RD, I've heard everything you are going to say 1000x. You might wait until you have something original to say, but I'm not interested in all the usual explanations that are either cheesy or total flops about certain passages, like Rev 3:21 and Christ not being seated already (yours earlier today).
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More made up stuff, unbelief. Getting very old.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
So now you're accusing Paul of being a false prophet?
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Perhaps this example will help:

Jesus said his followers would be reaching the whole world. They didn't know at the time that he was going to impound a leader of Judaism like Paul and employ him in the work. Was Jesus a false prophet to tell them they would be going to the ends of the earth? No, but he didn't tell them everything.

The city and country was to be destroyed in that generation for its failure to work in the mission. There were some unusual features and there was fire, but it was not yet time for the return. It is not complicated, but you people who think that all this is a matter of exact prognostication have to grow up. And to make the most of the historical record, like some have done down through time, Peter Holford in England in 1810 for example.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Perhaps this example will help:

Jesus said his followers would be reaching the whole world. They didn't know at the time that he was going to impound a leader of Judaism like Paul and employ him in the work. Was Jesus a false prophet to tell them they would be going to the ends of the earth? No, but he didn't tell them everything.

The city and country was to be destroyed in that generation for its failure to work in the mission. There were some unusual features and there was fire, but it was not yet time for the return. It is not complicated, but you people who think that all this is a matter of exact prognostication have to grow up. And to make the most of the historical record, like some have done down through time, Peter Holford in England in 1810 for example.
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Made up. Humanism.

Matthew 10:23 (KJV)
 
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