The Trinity

JudgeRightly · Sep 11, 2017

keypurr said:
Your letting the church be your authority. Stop fooling yourself.

Keypurr, answer the rest of my posts, or concede the discussion, or stop replying.

Use "[PARSE][/QUOTE][/PARSE]" and "[PARSE]

[/PARSE]" to break up the posts you reply to if you have to, but you need to reply to the points that are made.

As for who my authority is, I already told you, there is no higher authority than God, and after Him is His word, the Bible. He gave us the scriptures for us to use them. If the church (or any individual, such as yourself) conflicts with Scripture, which comes from God, it has a higher authority than the church, because it is inspired by God.

I take the authority to think for myself.

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And you have relied on your own understanding of scripture, instead of letting scripture speak for itself.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the Lord and depart from evil.It will be health to your flesh, And strength to your bones. - Proverbs 3:5-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs3:5-8&version=NKJV

Your still at the starting line JR. You have a long road to explore.

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That's coming from someone who has abandoned the church completely and has made himself wise in his own eyes.

Your wisdom is as foolishness.

But using your logic, name ANY IMAGE that is not a CREATION.

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Jesus Christ, the perfect image of God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Lord, is God the Son.

Keypurr, a perfect copy of something is the thing itself. God has no equal, therefore, Jesus being the express image of God is God. Jesus, being God, has no beginning, therefore CANNOT be a created being.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word. He was in the beginning with God. All things through Him emerged, and without Him emerged not even one thing that emerged. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light in the darkness shines, and the darkness overcame it not . . . And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us, and we beheld the glory of him, a glory of an only begotten with a father, full of grace and truth."

Keypurr, multiple times in the Bible, and even in writings throughout history, an author will give an overview of a period of history in a few short words or sentences, and then go back and add details to the events, adding depth to them. John is no different.

He starts out by giving an overview statement, starting with the beginning of our history, explaining that the Word, Jesus (don't believe me? Who is the focus of Matthew? of Mark? Luke? Jesus, correct? How is John any different when it comes to the focus of his gospel?), was in the beginning, that He was with God, and that He is God.

John parallels Moses briefly:

"In the beginning [Moses: God created the heavens and the earth] [John: was the Word, and the word was with God, and God was the Word. He (the Word, who is God) was in the beginning with God. All things through Him (the Word) emerged, and without Him (the Word) emerged not even one thing that emerged.]"

God, the Word, created the heavens and the earth, out of the Word, God, emerged all things, and without God (the Word), nothing emerged that emerged.

In other words, THE WORD, who is God, Created all things.

John does the same thing again in 1 John 1:

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life—the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us—that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.And these things we write to you that your joy may be full. - 1 John 1:1-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1John1:1-4&version=NKJV

This entire passage is talking about Jesus. Or was Jesus not the one who was heard, who was seen, who was looked upon and was handled, who is the life of men, manifested in the flesh, whom the Apostles saw and bore witness to, the Life which was with God the Father.

If that passage is not talking about Jesus, Keypurr, then please tell me who it is talking about.

keypurr · Sep 12, 2017

JudgeRightly said:
Keypurr, answer the rest of my posts, or concede the discussion, or stop replying.

Use "[PARSE]

[/PARSE]" and "[PARSE]

[/PARSE]" to break up the posts you reply to if you have to, but you need to reply to the points that are made.

As for who my authority is, I already told you, there is no higher authority than God, and after Him is His word, the Bible. He gave us the scriptures for us to use them. If the church (or any individual, such as yourself) conflicts with Scripture, which comes from God, it has a higher authority than the church, because it is inspired by God.

And you have relied on your own understanding of scripture, instead of letting scripture speak for itself.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the Lord and depart from evil.It will be health to your flesh, And strength to your bones. - Proverbs 3:5-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs3:5-8&version=NKJV

That's coming from someone who has abandoned the church completely and has made himself wise in his own eyes.

Your wisdom is as foolishness.

Jesus Christ, the perfect image of God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Lord, is God the Son.

Keypurr, a perfect copy of something is the thing itself. God has no equal, therefore, Jesus being the express image of God is God. Jesus, being God, has no beginning, therefore CANNOT be a created being.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word. He was in the beginning with God. All things through Him emerged, and without Him emerged not even one thing that emerged. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light in the darkness shines, and the darkness overcame it not . . . And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us, and we beheld the glory of him, a glory of an only begotten with a father, full of grace and truth."

Keypurr, multiple times in the Bible, and even in writings throughout history, an author will give an overview of a period of history in a few short words or sentences, and then go back and add details to the events, adding depth to them. John is no different.

He starts out by giving an overview statement, starting with the beginning of our history, explaining that the Word, Jesus (don't believe me? Who is the focus of Matthew? of Mark? Luke? Jesus, correct? How is John any different when it comes to the focus of his gospel?), was in the beginning, that He was with God, and that He is God.

John parallels Moses briefly:

"In the beginning [Moses: God created the heavens and the earth] [John: was the Word, and the word was with God, and God was the Word. He (the Word, who is God) was in the beginning with God. All things through Him (the Word) emerged, and without Him (the Word) emerged not even one thing that emerged.]"

God, the Word, created the heavens and the earth, out of the Word, God, emerged all things, and without God (the Word), nothing emerged that emerged.

In other words, THE WORD, who is God, Created all things.

John does the same thing again in 1 John 1:

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life—the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us—that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.And these things we write to you that your joy may be full. - 1 John 1:1-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1John1:1-4&version=NKJV

This entire passage is talking about Jesus. Or was Jesus not the one who was heard, who was seen, who was looked upon and was handled, who is the life of men, manifested in the flesh, whom the Apostles saw and bore witness to, the Life which was with God the Father.

If that passage is not talking about Jesus, Keypurr, then please tell me who it is talking about.

You fail to see that Jesus is just the body that held the logos. John 1:1 is about the logos. You do not see that it was the logos that is the first of creation. The logos was given the fullness of the Father. You fail to see that the logos spoke through the body prepared for it.

You fail to see so much truth that the scriptures display because of the half truths you have learned. The logos is a god like spirit, not a man, this is how God brought us enlightenment friend. The Son that God sent from heaven is the logos, not Jesus.

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JudgeRightly · Sep 12, 2017

keypurr said:
You fail to see that Jesus is just the body that held the logos.

Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. - Hebrews 4:14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews4:14&version=NKJV

John 1:1 is about the logos.

Jesus IS THE Word, Keypurr. You cannot prove otherwise.

You do not see that it was the logos that is the first of creation.

Changing scripture to fit your beliefs won't work, Keypurr.

Jesus Christ, the Word of God, who is God, is preeminent, the firstborn of all creation. He is the uncaused Cause, firstborn of the dead. He is Immanuel, God With Us.

The logos was given the fullness of the Father.

For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, - Colossians 1:19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians1:19&version=NKJV

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; - Colossians 2:9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians2:9&version=NKJV

None of those verses say that the "fullness of the Father" was given to Jesus. They all say that he already had it.

You fail to see that the logos spoke through the body prepared for it.

And you fail to see that you haven't established that the Word and Jesus Christ are not one person, making all your points based on the assumption that the Word and Christ are two invalid. Jesus became flesh and dwelt among us. He was sent by His Father into the world that whoever should believe in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Son of Man.

You fail to see so much truth that the scriptures display because of the half truths you have learned.

More made up nonsense.

The logos is a god like spirit, not a man,

You deny scripture, you heretic. Scripture tells us that the Word is GOD. Not "a god" or "a god-like spirit." God is the Word.

Or do you not even understand basic English?

this is how God brought us enlightenment friend.

Made up nonsense.

The Son that God sent from heaven is the logos, not Jesus.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’” - John 1:14-15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:14-15&version=NKJV
AND
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.”And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him.I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.” - John 1:29-34 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:29-34&version=NKJV

These two passages are talking about the same Person. These two passages state clearly that John bore witness of the Word Jesus Christ. He is one Person, not two.

Or have you ignored the fact that when John wrote these two passages he used the exact same phrase twice to talk about both the Word and Jesus?

Right Divider · Sep 12, 2017

keypurr said:
Or smarter than you.
That verse is not about Jesus.
But you do not see that.

Yes, It is about the LORD Jesus Christ. But you just do not see that.

keypurr · Sep 12, 2017

The Trinity

Deleted post

JR I will post my rebuttal when I get on my PC.
The tablets are to cumbersome to work with.

keypurr · Sep 12, 2017

Right Divider said:
Yes, It is about the LORD Jesus Christ. But you just do not see that.

Its about the Lord Jesus Christ not LORD.

LORD would imply YHWH.

Jesus the man did not exist before he was born.
The logos that he received at is baptism is a form of God.
John 1:1 is about the logos, not Jesus.
The logos became flesh in the body of Jesus.

One must read and think with prayer to see this truth.

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Right Divider · Sep 12, 2017

keypurr said:
Its about the Lord Jesus Christ not LORD.

LORD would imply YHWH.

It sure does keypurr and for a valid reason.

You vain attempts to make LORD and Lord different are bogus.

keypurr said:
Jesus the man did not exist before he was born.

In that sense, no man exists before he is born.

keypurr said:
The logos that he received at is baptism is a form of God.
John 1:1 is about the logos, not Jesus.
The logos became flesh in the body of Jesus.

That is your heretical lie deceiver.

The Word was made flesh refers to HIS BIRTH and not some "spirit takeover".

The Word WAS GOD.

keypurr said:
One must read and think with prayer to see this truth.

One must believe the truth and you don't.

keypurr · Sep 12, 2017

Right Divider said:
It sure does keypurr and for a valid reason.

You vain attempts to make LORD and Lord different are bogus.

In that sense, no man exists before he is born.

That is your heretical lie deceiver.

The Word was made flesh refers to HIS BIRTH and not some "spirit takeover".

The Word WAS GOD.

One must believe the truth and you don't.

You need to read more slowly RD for your not seeing what the words in the Bible are telling you. A person can not talk and listen at the same time to learn anything.

Do a study on the words LORD, Lord and lord.
You might be surprised.

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Right Divider · Sep 12, 2017

keypurr said:
You need to read more slowly RD for your not seeing what the words in the Bible are telling you. A person can not talk and listen at the same time to learn anything.

Your "wisdom" does not impress us keypurr.

keypurr said:
Do a study on the words LORD, Lord and lord.
You might be surprised.

You are the one that needs to learn that the LORD Jesus Christ is LORD.

keypurr · Sep 13, 2017

Right Divider said:
Your "wisdom" does not impress us keypurr.

Your are the one that needs to learn that the LORD Jesus Christ is LORD.

I can lead you to the water but I can't make you drink it.

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JudgeRightly · Sep 13, 2017

keypurr said:
I can lead you to the water but I can't make you drink it.

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You can't lead anyone anywhere because you're blinded to the truth of Scripture.

Right Divider · Sep 13, 2017

keypurr said:
I can lead you to the water but I can't make you drink it.

Throughout scripture the LORD Jesus Christ is declared to be God, but poor keypurr has found some "secret knowledge" from outside the scripture that he prefers.

Here is one example where Paul declared the LORD Jesus Christ to be God.

Rom 14:10-12 (AKJV/PCE)

(14:10) But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. (14:11) For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. (14:12) So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Isa 45:23 (AKJV/PCE)

(45:23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

At the judgment seat of CHRIST everyone will give an account of himself to God.

Paul equated the LORD Jesus Christ to God, but you'll reject it.

JudgeRightly · Sep 13, 2017

deleted

JudgeRightly · Sep 13, 2017

Right Divider said:
Throughout scripture the LORD Jesus Christ is declared to be God, but poor keypurr has found some "secret knowledge" from outside the scripture that he prefers.

Here is one example where Paul declared the LORD Jesus Christ to be God.

Rom 14:10-12 (AKJV/PCE)
(14:10) But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. (14:11) For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. (14:12) So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Isa 45:23 (AKJV/PCE)
(45:23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

At the judgment seat of CHRIST everyone will give an account of himself to God.

Paul equated the LORD Jesus Christ to God, but you'll reject it.

You can lead a heretic to truth, but you can't make him think.

keypurr · Sep 13, 2017

Right Divider said:
Throughout scripture the LORD Jesus Christ is declared to be God, but poor keypurr has found some "secret knowledge" from outside the scripture that he prefers.

Here is one example where Paul declared the LORD Jesus Christ to be God.

Rom 14:10-12 (AKJV/PCE)
(14:10) But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. (14:11) For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. (14:12) So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Isa 45:23 (AKJV/PCE)
(45:23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

At the judgment seat of CHRIST everyone will give an account of himself to God.

Paul equated the LORD Jesus Christ to God, but you'll reject it.

Nope, Paul never said that Jesus Christ was God.

You have yet to understand LORD, Lord and lord..

You can not taste the meat, only the milk.

Good luck to you in finding the road to Christ and his God.

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JudgeRightly · Sep 13, 2017

keypurr said:
Nope, Paul never said that Jesus Christ was God.

You have yet to understand LORD, Lord and lord..

You can not taste the meat, only the milk.

Good luck to you in finding the road to Christ and his God.

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Your reading comprehension sucks.

keypurr · Sep 13, 2017

JudgeRightly said:
You can lead a heretic to truth, but you can't make him think.

As they say, ya can't fix stupid.

Follow your traditions if your happy with them, I know to much to do that. The true church of Christ is in the heart of the folks that love him. I would guess my thoughts are more than you could ever understand. For your truly not independent enough to see truth.

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Right Divider · Sep 13, 2017

keypurr said:
Nope, Paul never said that Jesus Christ was God.

You have yet to understand LORD, Lord and lord..

You can not taste the meat, only the milk.

Good luck to you in finding the road to Christ and his God.

You are a complete idiot keypurr.

Paul QUOTES Isaiah where the LORD is speaking and Paul refers to the LORD as Lord in Romans 14:11

marhig · Sep 13, 2017

JudgeRightly said:
Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. - Hebrews 4:14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews4:14&version=NKJV

Jesus IS THE Word, Keypurr. You cannot prove otherwise.

Changing scripture to fit your beliefs won't work, Keypurr.

Jesus Christ, the Word of God, who is God, is preeminent, the firstborn of all creation. He is the uncaused Cause, firstborn of the dead. He is Immanuel, God With Us.

For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, - Colossians 1:19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians1:19&version=NKJV

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; - Colossians 2:9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians2:9&version=NKJV

None of those verses say that the "fullness of the Father" was given to Jesus. They all say that he already had it.

And you fail to see that you haven't established that the Word and Jesus Christ are not one person, making all your points based on the assumption that the Word and Christ are two invalid. Jesus became flesh and dwelt among us. He was sent by His Father into the world that whoever should believe in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Son of Man.

More made up nonsense.

You deny scripture, you heretic. Scripture tells us that the Word is GOD. Not "a god" or "a god-like spirit." God is the Word.

Or do you not even understand basic English?

Made up nonsense.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’” - John 1:14-15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:14-15&version=NKJV
AND
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.”And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him.I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.” - John 1:29-34 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:29-34&version=NKJV

These two passages are talking about the same Person. These two passages state clearly that John bore witness of the Word Jesus Christ. He is one Person, not two.

Or have you ignored the fact that when John wrote these two passages he used the exact same phrase twice to talk about both the Word and Jesus?

Why does Godhead mean trinity?

marhig · Sep 13, 2017

JudgeRightly said:
You can lead a heretic to truth, but you can't make him think.

I don't believe exactly the same as keypurr, but he's right, Jesus is the flesh that the Spirit of Christ is in, where I see differently to keypur is that Christ was always the Spirit in Jesus and the Holy Spirit of God was upon him and he grew in Strength from a child.

People can be so judgemental in here, listen to yourselves, none of you know the heart of keypurr to judge him as you all do! and none of you are perfect either! And that goes for me too, I'm not perfect either.

The Trinity

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