"Did Life Evolve" program..

and to add on some more... recombination also adds to gene pool diversity. But the effect of mutation depends if we are talking about DNA or actually changing amino acid sequences. 33% of DNA can change without having any effect on peptide sequence (given that the first two DNA bases determines the AA sequence in a codon [=three adjacent bases]). Then the likelihood of a amino acid change having an effect depends on the importance of the protein and the change in protein configuration with the mutation. I have friends that studied allozymes (different forms of an enzyme) as population markers (no longer fashionable to use allozymes) so changing the peptide sequence does not equal death.

Unless downright lethal, the effect of a mutation is contextual as we know from actual experiments. So, assuming there is an effect, a mutation can be negative or positive (relating to fitness) depending on the environmental context.

So now that it has been established that the webpage is entirely misleading, will it be removed/corrected?

Where's the Christian outrage over this deception? I see it when the liberal media is dishonest. I see it when Kerry is misleading. I see it when evolutionists are misleading. Why not now? This program is just as dishonest.

Bob, any defense? Will anyone defend the program?

Johnny said:

Where's the Christian outrage over this deception? I see it when the liberal media is dishonest. I see it when Kerry is misleading. I see it when evolutionists are misleading. Why not now? This program is just as dishonest.

Bob, any defense? Will anyone defend the program?

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Do not hold your breath waiting for that to happen.
If you wait long enough I'm sure someone will come along and call you an "Idot".
Good luck figuring out what that means.

fool said:

straw men are fun
let me see if I can make one
if I put the population of people on the earth
5,000,000,000
into my calculator and devide by two
as in a world wide coin toss tournament
I come up with the winner having won 33 coin tosses in a row
and what's more amazing is that the person he won the last one against had won 32 in a row!
what are the odds?!?!?
so here's what you can do at home
you and your buddy toss coins by your selves until you have both beat the coin 32 times in a row and the play each other
see how many tries it takes you and let us know
and by the way please ignore the fact that there will be winners
please ignore the fact that the winners prove that it is possible
just cocentrate on the coins flipping

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Isn't anyone going to burn my strawman?

The bottom line is you have to call Bob's show if you want him to respond.
Even though he has retracted statements on TOL before.
And directed people here as a cite for those retractions.
See the whole Neanderthal music thing on his web site and this forum.

bump

fool said:

bump

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Doesn't matter. For those who believe, all evidence is either "proof" of their position, or lies by their opponents.

Pardon me, I'm feeling rather cynical tonight. Perhaps I should just call it a day.

Justin (Wiccan) said:

Doesn't matter. For those who believe, all evidence is either "proof" of their position, or lies by their opponents.

Pardon me, I'm feeling rather cynical tonight. Perhaps I should just call it a day.

Click to expand...

No problem should sleep myself.
Just bumped it up cause I saw the "Flood on Mars" thread was active again and aparently Bob stopped by to inform us that an old jacuzzi had been found in Jerusalem. Granite and Allsmilies took him to task, and Jefferson took over the spin from there. It reminded me of this thread and the old straw man I left here................................... He's still standing.

It will never be defended. The program will remain on the website a testament to the ignorance and deception of the creationist movement.

Johnny said:

It will never be defended. The program will remain on the website a testament to the ignorance and deception of the creationist movement.

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Blatant dishonesty like that is the reason that people don't take so much of the Christian message into consideration.

Blatant dishonesty like that is the reason that people don't take so much of the Christian message into consideration.

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It's also the reason many young Christians experience a faith-related crisis when they get into the university system and realize how many lies they've been fed. I know because I've experienced it myself and I've watched many other go through the same thing. Many former Christians go on to become agnostics or even atheists after going through the university science programs. Caryl Matritiano said that "75% of all children raised in Christian homes who attend public schools will reject the Christian faith by their first year of college." The creationist movement points to this phenomenon to claim that evolution leads people away from Christ and to further support their idea that faith in God and a belief in evolution are completely incompatible. Yet they do not realize that it isn't evolution that drives people away from God, it's the dishonesty, ignorance, and deception of their own movement. There is virtually no professional integrity, honesty, or standards within the "Christian Science" movement and this becomes painfully obvious not far into one's science education. In my opinion, Christian science has driven many away from Christ and has kept twice as many from ever knowing Him.

"In general, I've been dismayed by the lack of scholarship, research, and ethics displayed by these men who claim to be devout Christians. They totally misrepresent mainstream science and scientists, ignore evidence contrary to their claims, and display an amazing ignorance of even the most basic fundamentals of science and scientific inquiry. Their materials are aimed toward laypeople who are in no position to evaluate their claims. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but who is better qualified to judge the accuracy of K-Ar dating, an evangelist who reads creationist literature and has never taken a physics or geology course in his life or a Ph.D. in isotope geochemistry (who may also be a devout Christian) who has spent 25 years studying K-Ar dating in granites?" - Steven Schimmrich

This thread will not die until Bob acknowledges that his program is a lie. I'd like to see someone step up and defend it.