toldailytopic: If you are saved, yet you stumble (and sin) are you still saved?

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godrulz

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My flesh, wherein sin dwells, is not saved, nor has it ever been, nor shall it ever be. I am saved in Christ and in Him there is no sin. And I do not identify with my sin.

Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
-Romans 7:20

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
-Romans 8:7

My salvation is in Him and Him alone. Nothing I do in the flesh can have any impact on that.

And when you recognize jut how amazing His grace is you never want to take it for granted.

Do you believe in bodily resurrection/glorification? Was Jesus the Word made flesh, yet sinless?
 

Buzzword

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I treat being "saved" as merely the choice to begin a process.

Most churchy types call the process "sanctification."

The process transforms a person, to steal a metaphor from C.S. Lewis, from a tin soldier into a real person, from a lifeless image of life into life itself.

The process isn't complete until the flesh no longer holds any influence over us, which most Christians believe doesn't happen until the physical body dies.

During the process, the mistakes made before starting continue to happen, except that now we are more aware that they ARE mistakes, and can begin working to shed the personal flaws which led to them.

Each of us has control via the will over how efficiently the process works.
We have a choice in every moment, succeeding in moving through the process or not, whether or not we will CONTINUE the process, or decide we were perfectly happy without this painful system of transformation and remain tin soldiers forever.

Only after choosing to cease the process altogether are we required to start over.

Fortunately, God is willing that NONE, no matter how many times they've started and stopped the transformation, should perish, and thus will never turn away a repentant tin soldier.
 

Lucky

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Most of the time I feel like I've got my "ticket" to Heaven, that I'm saved and eternally secure. Then other times I feel more like the Luke 18:13 guy. Not so much begging for a re-salvation, but more of a cry of gratitude toward God for his grace. Cause I really need it. Everyday there is less and less about me that I would dare boast about, but more and more about God.
 

Ktoyou

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I treat being "saved" as merely the choice to begin a process.

Most churchy types call the process "sanctification."

The process transforms a person, to steal a metaphor from C.S. Lewis, from a tin soldier into a real person, from a lifeless image of life into life itself.

The process isn't complete until the flesh no longer holds any influence over us, which most Christians believe doesn't happen until the physical body dies.

During the process, the mistakes made before starting continue to happen, except that now we are more aware that they ARE mistakes, and can begin working to shed the personal flaws which led to them.

Each of us has control via the will over how efficiently the process works.
We have a choice in every moment, succeeding in moving through the process or not, whether or not we will CONTINUE the process, or decide we were perfectly happy without this painful system of transformation and remain tin soldiers forever.

Only after choosing to cease the process altogether are we required to start over.

Fortunately, God is willing that NONE, no matter how many times they've started and stopped the transformation, should perish, and thus will never turn away a repentant tin soldier.

Hardly. Being saved in when one has the gift of the Holy Spirit, not the beginning of the process and not the end, as our Christian walk begins fully, yet we walk as new creatures saved in Grace.
 

Persephone66

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for May 28th, 2010 10:45 AM


toldailytopic: If you are saved, yet you stumble (and sin) are you still saved?


I've always wondered how that worked because I know a few people that claim to be Christians or claim to have repented yet still do things that are sins. Isn't part of repenting not sinning anymore? I guess it's one thing when you have a moment of weakness, but isn't to continue to knowingly sin a little different?
 

godrulz

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I've always wondered how that worked because I know a few people that claim to be Christians or claim to have repented yet still do things that are sins. Isn't part of repenting not sinning anymore? I guess it's one thing when you have a moment of weakness, but isn't to continue to knowingly sin a little different?

Some say these are 'carnal Christians', but is there really such a beast?
 

godrulz

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If the answer is no as godrulz and other perverts say, then everybody will go to hell, and God will be lonely, and Satan wins.


I said 'yes', dopey. I say 'no' to OSAS, but that was not the question. Unbelief/apostasy is a unique sin. Get over it.

Denying OSAS does not mean everyone goes to hell (your logical fallacy is over-generalization and non-sequitur). Arminians reject OSAS yet are consistent to say that Christians, even those who struggle with sin are saved. Those who reject Christ (whether they once believed or not) are the ones condemned.

Your straw man is another hit on your credibility.
 

godrulz

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Most of the time I feel like I've got my "ticket" to Heaven, that I'm saved and eternally secure. Then other times I feel more like the Luke 18:13 guy. Not so much begging for a re-salvation, but more of a cry of gratitude toward God for his grace. Cause I really need it. Everyday there is less and less about me that I would dare boast about, but more and more about God.

OSAS and non-OSAS can share your testimony. What is your view and why?
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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Agreed!

And that is why it cannot be said that Christ died for all men universally, for then Christ would have been judged for the sins of all men, and not a single soul could be retried in God's court of law.

There would be no Judgement Day or no hell.

(Of course, some Universalists believe all this, but the beliefs of Universalism do not match the teachings of Holy Scripture, do they?)

To answer the OP in "Calvinistic" language, salvation cannot be lost despite occasional sin-lapses, because the anointing of the Holy Spirit at one's point of spiritual regeneration is permanent, for He seals and preserves the elect unto the ultimate salvation of the soul. (Ephesians 1:13-14)

The specific Reformed doctrine is called "Perseverance Of The Saints" which is different teaching from the Arminian "Once Saved, Always Saved."

Nang
What my sister Nang said! I did not save myself, so I am certainly not going to lose myself. ;)

AMR
 

Ktoyou

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I've always wondered how that worked because I know a few people that claim to be Christians or claim to have repented yet still do things that are sins. Isn't part of repenting not sinning anymore? I guess it's one thing when you have a moment of weakness, but isn't to continue to knowingly sin a little different?

No one can be totally free from sin, for Jesus said 'be like my Father' and the law teaches the meaning of sin. The gift of Grace helps us sin less and we are forgiven.

Some call themselves 'Christian', but they are much like moose lodge members who never attend, or they are those who attend, yet do so without any self motivation. This is why some think they will get to heaven if they do not sing, dance, smoke or drink.
 

godrulz

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What my sister Nang said! I did not save myself, so I am certainly not going to lose myself. ;)

AMR

This is based on Calvinistic assumptions that wrongly think conditions are causation. Just because we freely receive or reject Christ/gospel does not mean we save ourselves (straw man). Just because some fall away or apostasize does not mean they lose themselves nor save themselves (non-sequitur).
 

Persephone66

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No one can be totally free from sin, for Jesus said 'be like my Father' and the law teaches the meaning of sin. The gift of Grace helps us sin less and we are forgiven.
Is it really that hard not to do bad things?

Some call themselves 'Christian', but they are much like moose lodge members who never attend, or they are those who attend, yet do so without any self motivation. This is why some think they will get to heaven if they do not sing, dance, smoke or drink.
Kinda what I figured.
 

sdgareth

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for May 28th, 2010 10:45 AM


toldailytopic: If you are saved, yet you stumble (and sin) are you still saved?






Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.

We are born sinners and will die sinners, we will always sin either through thoughts or actions.

Jesus was the only one who ever lived that was free of sin

Confess your sins to the Lord through Jesus Christ our intercessor and through God's Grace and Mercy you will be forgiven.

Rom_2:15
They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.
 

Persephone66

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We are born sinners and will die sinners, we will always sin either through thoughts or actions.

Jesus was the only one who ever lived that was free of sin

Confess your sins to the Lord through Jesus Christ our intercessor and through God's Grace and Mercy you will be forgiven.

Rom_2:15
They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.

So is a baby, just born and has not done anything but take his first breath of air, a sinner?
 

Lighthouse

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We are born sinners and will die sinners, we will always sin either through thoughts or actions.

Jesus was the only one who ever lived that was free of sin

Confess your sins to the Lord through Jesus Christ our intercessor and through God's Grace and Mercy you will be forgiven.

Rom_2:15
They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.
This doesn't answer the question.

And what version are you quoting from?

who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
-Romans 2:15 NKJV

That really doesn't look the same to me.
 

bybee

New member
I quote,

I quote,

Is it really that hard not to do bad things?


Kinda what I figured.

My brother-in-law's famous line "I just gave up smoking, drinking and women! The funeral is Tuesday!"
There are people who presume to speak for God that would take all joy out of our lives.
I believe that God wants us to have an abundance of the good things which He has provided for our use.
I find it interesting that in Genesis God commands that music be part of man's worship. And we have an intrinsic beat in our hearts through which we respond to the tempo of music. And we are moved literally and figuratively to dance. Praise God from whom all blessings flow. peace, bybee:guitar::drum::BRAVO::upright::sinapisN::the_wave::the_wave::the_wave:
 

sdgareth

New member
This doesn't answer the question.

And what version are you quoting from?

NLT

who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
-Romans 2:15 NKJV

That really doesn't look the same to me.
 

sdgareth

New member
So is a baby, just born and has not done anything but take his first breath of air, a sinner?

Yes a child is born innocent, yet it is born into sin, this sinful world world that we live in. All as a result of the orignial sin.

No being will die free of sin, the difference is however, if you recognise that sin and ask for forgivness and choose to walk the very difficult and often challanging walk of faith and belief in God.

Through facing your sins and acknowledging your sin to God and asking for his forgivness you will grow and mature as a Christian.

God calls the sinner to him, confess your sins and they are forgiven
His mercy is new everyday.

Many however choose the "ostrich" approach i.e. stick your head under the sand thinking that know nobody can see you (in this case, thinking that the sin is not there) whilst the whole world can see your rear end.

The above approach is "easier" to live with and less challanging. However there are no rewards.

A the end of the day it is about a relationship with God, living in his love, blessed with His Mercy and Grace.
 
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