The Serious Consequences of NOT Believing that Jesus Atoned for the Sins of the World

Epoisses

Epoisses

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Potter's Clay said:
Can you first establish Biblical evidence of an unregenerate person "accepting" Christ in exchange for Atonement before we call sound theology "stupid"?


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If you will establish how what Christ accomplished on the cross automatically and without fail manifests itself in the lives of believers. You would of course have to ignore every verse where believers not unregenerates can resist the Holy Spirit and fall from grace. The verses on falling from grace by themselves refute all of Calvinism because unbelievers and unregenerates don't have grace!

Answer my question, the same one that has been put to every Calvinist for the last 400 years.
 
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Potter's Clay

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Epoisses said:
If you will establish how what Christ accomplished on the cross automatically and without fail manifests itself in the lives of believers. You would of course have to ignore every verse where believers not unregenerates can resist the Holy Spirit and fall from grace. The verses on falling from grace by themselves refute all of Calvinism because unbelievers and unregenerates don't have grace!

Answer my question, the same one that has been put to every Calvinist for the last 400 years.
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I would be delighted if you would list verses of believers falling from grace if that is what you are claiming.


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beloved57

beloved57

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Robert Pate said:
The Bible makes it clear that all of the sins of the world have been atoned for, 1 John 2:2. However, nothing is ours until it is received by faith.
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False comments ! Those Christ died for are atoned for, reconciled to God while they are enemies hating God and rejecting Him Rom 5:10. So they received the Gift of Atonement while hating and rejecting God !
 
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Robert Pate

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beloved57 said:
False comments ! Those Christ died for are atoned for, reconciled to God while they are enemies hating God and rejecting Him Rom 5:10. So they received the Gift of Atonement while hating and rejecting God !
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You think that scripture eliminates scripture and then you also believe that heaven is going to be full of Christ rejecters like yourself.
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

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Potter's Clay said:
I would be delighted if you would list verses of believers falling from grace if that is what you are claiming.


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Galatians 5:4 right off the top of my head and if I recall the Galatians were believers. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Also Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
 
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Potter's Clay

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Epoisses said:
Galatians 5:4 right off the top of my head and if I recall the Galatians were believers. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Also Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
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In Galatians 5:4, they may profess to be believers, but we cannot conclude that they have true faith. If they do have true faith, then there is a contradiction with John 10:28 where we clearly understand that no one can be plucked from the Father's hand.

In Luke 8:13, a similar circumstance is occurring. Just like in today's times, people profess to believe, but we know by their fruits that their hearts have not been regenerated. That's why it's necessary to understand that humans were born dead in trespasses and sins according to Ephesians 2:1. In Romans, we learn that no one is righteous, and the only path to know righteousness is by being born again.

What does being born again mean?
This is a complete renewal of our hearts so that we know righteousness. This could not have occurred from a choice made by a person who only knows sin. There is no evidence to suggest that in the Bible.


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way 2 go

way 2 go

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Charles94 said:
This is simply nonsense. Where is atonement ever said to be "transferred" in scripture? If the Father accepted Jesus' sacrifice, then atonement was accomplished. It is a transaction between the Father and Son and all debts are considered paid.

Heb10:13-14...from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

The cross only accomplished something for those who are being sanctified in space and time. Until you can explain what that one offering accomplished for His enemies (and why He refused to pray for the "world" in John17:9), you are simply making up an unscriptural system.



John3:17-18 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already...

If the world means "every single person" and Jesus did not come to condemn the world, then who is condemning these unbelievers "already?" Why isn't the Father on the same page as the Son?
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are you a universalist ?
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

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Potter's Clay said:
In Galatians 5:4, they may profess to be believers, but we cannot conclude that they have true faith. If they do have true faith, then there is a contradiction with John 10:28 where we clearly understand that no one can be plucked from the Father's hand.

In Luke 8:13, a similar circumstance is occurring. Just like in today's times, people profess to believe, but we know by their fruits that their hearts have not been regenerated. That's why it's necessary to understand that humans were born dead in trespasses and sins according to Ephesians 2:1. In Romans, we learn that no one is righteous, and the only path to know righteousness is by being born again.

What does being born again mean?
This is a complete renewal of our hearts so that we know righteousness. This could not have occurred from a choice made by a person who only knows sin. There is no evidence to suggest that in the Bible.


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I didn't think you would address the verses seriously. To be a member of any church in the 1st century meant receiving the Holy Spirit with power after Pentecost and placing one's life in mortal danger. It wasn't like today where we get lattes in the parlor before church. In the council of Christ to the seven churches of Asia minor he rebuked every church except for Philadelphia which bore the name of brotherly love. He didn't tell them that believers never fall away. Calvinist doctrines with their golden parachute beliefs are no where to be found in scripture.
 
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Potter's Clay

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Epoisses said:
I didn't think you would address the verses seriously. To be a member of any church in the 1st century meant receiving the Holy Spirit with power after Pentecost and placing one's life in mortal danger. It wasn't like today where we get lattes in the parlor before church. In the council of Christ to the seven churches of Asia minor he rebuked every church except for Philadelphia which bore the name of brotherly love. He didn't tell them that believers never fall away. Calvinist doctrines with their golden parachute beliefs are no where to be found in scripture.
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I would defer back to my original inquiry because I have not found Biblical support for the notion that a believer can lose salvation or gain salvation from his/her own doings.


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Epoisses

Epoisses

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Potter's Clay said:
I would defer back to my original inquiry because I have not found Biblical support for the notion that a believer can lose salvation or gain salvation from his/her own doings.


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A believer can lose his/her Salvation by entering a state of unbelief where the Holy Sprit is actively resisted or grieved. Law-keeping after receiving the gospel was one such state of unbelief. Love of the world or the lusts of the flesh or fame and fortune are other such states. Our focus should always be on Christ and his power to keep all those that belong to him but that doesn't mean being naïve to the possibility of apostasy like Hymenaeus and Alexander who made shipwreck of their faith.
 
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Potter's Clay

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Epoisses said:
A believer can lose his/her Salvation by entering a state of unbelief where the Holy Sprit is actively resisted or grieved. Law-keeping after receiving the gospel was one such state of unbelief. Our focus should always be on Christ and his power to keep all those that belong to him but that doesn't mean being naïve to the possibility of apostasy like Hymenaeus and Alexander who made shipwreck of their faith.
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I am yet to find someone in scripture who truly believed in God and lost his/her salvation.


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