ECT The "foibles" of the righteous

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Hebrews 11 is well known for its picture of those that died in faith. It highlights many who are luminaries in the scriptures for one reason and one reason alone - they believed God. And it is also not a shocking statement to say that the bible doesn't shy away from the imperfections of these same individuals. We all know that. But when you look closely at some of these faults, failures and sins, how are we to reconcile that with faith? Can faith and sin coexist?

Some examples :

Abraham - the father of the faithful - believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness. But this same Abraham didn't believe God when he was told he would have a son at his old age - nor did he believe it could be through Sara. Wasn't this some form of unbelief (in more than one way) and even something like adultery?

Moses - his many exploits through faith and obedience to God are summarized. But it is left out that he was denied entry into the very land to which he was sojourning because he disobeyed God and struck the rock instead of speaking to it.

Rahab - protected the spies (who were not on her side) and even lied for them. And while she certainly saw God's hand on them, she did lie for them.

Gideon - only mentioned in passing in this chapter. As a judge, he was reknowned but after his victory made a golden ephod by which Israel committed idolatry (and he didn't remove - that was his sin, I think). And then it says he took many wives. This does not seem like a man who lived by faith.

Samson - also mentioned only in passing. His weakness for Delilah became his downfall. Yet he was still a mighty judge and considered a man of faith.

David - need his sins be recounted? If he were alive today, it's unlikely he would be considered a believer anymore (at least in some circles) much less still a man of faith. Adultery and murder, not to mention the penchant for multiple wives and concubines.

I don't think "reconcile" is the right word, but how do we...hold in seeming tension...the things which seem to be "faith-killers" with the apparent faith these men exhibited? Do these sins undermine their faith or are they just a picture of fallen man given some grace by God in a time before Christ brought salvation to light? Jesus said that a good tree can't bring forth bad fruit nor a bad tree good fruit. Does that apply here?
 

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Please note. I realize what scripture says about man and his fleshly, fallen state. I realize all this and don't disagree. This is really a rather open-ended question about :

1. How man's faith and his sin affect each other (or does faith persist even amidst sin?)
2. How to view men in light of their faith AND their sin.

So don't feel like you have to answer the specific questions I've asked. This is more a musing with a realization that we are still subject to the flesh as those in Christ.
 

Truster

New member
There are occasions in Scripture when the regenerate are given a glimpse into eternal purpose. Once seen this can then be applied to other circumstances in which purpose is hidden from the casual inquirer.

Peter's sin of denial was used to beat down the deadly sin of pride. Proof that it worked can be seen in the conversion Messiah led Peter into.

David's many sins and wanderings gave him an idea of the size and power of the pre-evangelised cure. Last verse in Psalm 119 gives a glimpse into what David had been taught and the dangers he still faced.

A detailed study of the psalms will discover the results that exposed sin had on David. He was in sin without realising it. It took a prophet to expose the fact he was an adulterer and a murderer. This shows how deceitful sin is and it should keep the regenerate on guard.

The sins of the unregenerate feed pride. Sin in the regenerate breaks down the citadel of pride and allows repentance to do its work. John Newton had been down the narrow way and expressed the walk as being a series of dangers, trials and snares. If any man is in the Way he will have no doubt that it is grace that has brought him safe thus far and that grace will lead him home.

The dangers, trials and snares are all sin based and purposed. Sin is the enemy and although sin was overcome for the redeemed it still has undeniable influences in the flesh of the regenerate. But, "we know that all things work together for good to them that love Elohim, to them who are the called according to purpose".

The spiritually blind professors of salvation think they have stopped sinning because they are ignorant as to what the true definition of sin is. The unregenerate professors have no idea of the power of sin and Satan and think that their will is able to overcome both. It can't and they haven't

Ignorance of the power and purpose of sin is a sign the man is still in sin, but blind to the fact.
 
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