Deceptions Christians Believe

jzeidler · May 21, 2017

There is a #lie that has been #preached in #pulpits for years. This lie spits in the face of what happened at the #Cross. The lie is that #grace is just for #salvation but after that you have to work to keep in favor with #God. Many times #pastors don't preach it so bluntly as that but many times it is covertly preached.

https://soundcloud.com/freedomsfortress/sets/deceptions-christians-believe

Squeaky · May 21, 2017

James 2:20
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
(NKJ)

James 2:24
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
(NKJ)

James 2:26
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
(NKJ)

I Jn 2:4-5
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
(NKJ)

glorydaz · May 21, 2017

jzeidler said:
There is a #lie that has been #preached in #pulpits for years. This lie spits in the face of what happened at the #Cross. The lie is that #grace is just for #salvation but after that you have to work to keep in favor with #God. Many times #pastors don't preach it so bluntly as that but many times it is covertly preached.

https://soundcloud.com/freedomsfortress/sets/deceptions-christians-believe

It isn't just preached from the pulpit. It's preached right here on TOL, and it shows a complete lack of faith on the part of those preachers of man's obedience. MAN....forever hoping to steal glory from God. :nono:

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

glorydaz · May 21, 2017

Squeaky said:
James 2:20
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
(NKJ)

James 2:24
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
(NKJ)

James 2:26
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
(NKJ)

I Jn 2:4-5
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
(NKJ)

Ah, here's one of the worker bees ...not knowing that boasting is excluded by the Law of Faith.

They take verses they don't understand to support their own reasons for boasting.

Jacob · May 21, 2017

glorydaz said:
Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Shalom.

I used to use this verse to say that one I am not saved by works but by Jesus, but I also believed that it was saying that Jesus makes me righteous not my obedience such that I did not need to obey God only accept His grace and forgiveness. But I do need to obey God. I found that out from looking at all of scripture, and with a study of the writings of Paul.

Shalom.

Jacob

Saxon Hammer · May 21, 2017

glorydaz said:
Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Jacob said:
Shalom.

I used to use this verse to say that one I am not saved by works but by Jesus, but I also believed that it was saying that Jesus makes me righteous not my obedience such that I did not need to obey God only accept His grace and forgiveness. But I do need to obey God. I found that out from looking at all of scripture, and with a study of the writings of Paul.

Shalom.

Jacob

Could you please tell me what you need to 'obey' - please. I can easily see that one sinner can, by example, create desire in others to sin. However 'good guys' rarely come first so I would like to know how being obedient achieves 'shall many be made righteous'.

Jacob · May 21, 2017

Saxon Hammer said:
Could you please tell me what you need to 'obey' - please. I can easily see that one sinner can, by example, create desire in others to sin. However 'good guys' rarely come first so I would like to know how being obedient achieves 'shall many be made righteous'.

Shalom.

The first question is if anything that you do can be considered righteous. In Christ I have no righteousness, but because of Christ I do. Read all of Romans. You will see obedience, sanctification, and righteousness.

What you obey is something God reveals to you. As a Jew I observe Torah and the 1050 Commandments in Matthew through Revelation.

Are you looking for some instruction?

Shalom.

Jacob

CherubRam · May 21, 2017

glorydaz said:
Ah, here's one of the worker bees ...not knowing that boasting is excluded by the Law of Faith.

They take verses they don't understand to support their own reasons for boasting.

What happen to grace? Perhaps there is more going on than said.

Matthew 5:20
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

glorydaz · May 21, 2017

Jacob said:
Shalom.

I used to use this verse to say that one I am not saved by works but by Jesus, but I also believed that it was saying that Jesus makes me righteous not my obedience such that I did not need to obey God only accept His grace and forgiveness. But I do need to obey God. I found that out from looking at all of scripture, and with a study of the writings of Paul.

Shalom.

Jacob

Then you're giving credit to yourself, "I need to obey", and trusting in yourself. You are discounting God's ability to perform what He began in us when we were created as "new creatures" IN CHRIST JESUS.

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

It was ever a problem for the nation of Israel...entering into His rest.

Hebrews 4:9-11
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

glorydaz · May 21, 2017

Jacob said:
Shalom.

The first question is if anything that you do can be considered righteous. In Christ I have no righteousness, but because of Christ I do. Read all of Romans. You will see obedience, sanctification, and righteousness.

What you obey is something God reveals to you. As a Jew I observe Torah and the 1050 Commandments in Matthew through Revelation.

Are you looking for some instruction?

Shalom.

Jacob

See? You're boasting in your obedience to 1050 commandments. You're just like this Pharisee.

Luke 18:11-14 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Jacob · May 21, 2017

glorydaz said:
Then you're giving credit to yourself, "I need to obey", and trusting in yourself. You are discounting God's ability to perform what He began in us when we were created as "new creatures" IN CHRIST JESUS.

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

It was ever a problem for the nation of Israel...entering into His rest.

Hebrews 4:9-11
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Shalom.

No. You are incorrect. You are saved by God's grace alone.

Shalom.

Jacob

Jacob · May 21, 2017

glorydaz said:
See? You're boasting in your obedience to 1050 commandments. You're just like this Pharisee.

Luke 18:11-14 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Shalom.

No. You are incorrect. There is nothing for me to boast in. Only that I know the LORD, (Hebrew is read from right to left) יהוה, YHVH, Yahveh.

Shalom.

Jacob

glorydaz · May 21, 2017

CherubRam said:
What happen to grace? Perhaps there is more going on than said.

Matthew 5:20
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

That's were man is supposed to see his need of Grace.

glorydaz · May 21, 2017

Jacob said:
Shalom.

No. You are incorrect. There is nothing for me to boast in. Only that I know the LORD, (Hebrew is read from right to left) יהוה, YHVH, Yahveh.

Shalom.

Jacob

Deny it all you like. You ARE boasting in your obedience. And, you aren't being honest in your boast, either.

glorydaz · May 21, 2017

Jacob said:
Shalom.

No. You are incorrect. You are saved by God's grace alone.

Shalom.

Jacob

How can I be incorrect when I'm the one who sees salvation is a Gift of God that cannot be earned by our obedience.

If you're going to call me incorrect, then you'd better know what you're talking about....you don't.

Jacob · May 21, 2017

glorydaz said:
Deny it all you like. You ARE boasting in your obedience. And, you aren't being honest in your boast, either.

Shalom.

No. You are arrogant. The question was if there is anything that I can boast in. The answer is no. But then scripture says that I can boast that I know Him.

Shalom.

Jacob

Jacob · May 21, 2017

glorydaz said:
How can I be incorrect when I'm the one who sees salvation is a Gift of God that cannot be earned by our obedience.

If you're going to call me incorrect, then you'd better know what you're talking about....you don't.

Shalom.

You do not know what I am talking about. I share about God's grace, and you say that I can't because I don't know what you are talking about... but that is completely untrue. I can. But not because I do or do not know what you are talking about.

Shalom.

Jacob

Interplanner · May 21, 2017

Justification and personal transformation operate two different ways

Jacob · May 21, 2017

Interplanner said:
Justification and personal transformation operate two different ways

Shalom.

Justification is by faith and not the works of the Law. Was Abraham justified by faith or by works? We see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. It has to do with what is meant by justification. Some people seek to justify themselves. Personal transformation is similar to ongoing sanctification, except that sanctification and personal transformation can be in a moment, even when a person is justified by faith, when they are born again of the Spirit of God.

Shalom.

Jacob

glorydaz · May 21, 2017

Jacob said:
Shalom.

No. You are arrogant. The question was if there is anything that I can boast in. The answer is no. But then scripture says that I can boast that I know Him.

Shalom.

Jacob

No, I wasn't asking a question.....I as making a statement, and my statement stands. You are boasting in your obedience and the commands you obey. You can deny it til the cows come home, it won't change a thing.

Boasting is excluded by the law of Faith. That means, you are not to do so. You are not to list out or point out what YOU DO, but only what Christ does. He gets all the glory. Period.

Deceptions Christians Believe

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