JESUS IS NOT YHWH
- Thread starter KingdomRose
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TL;DR is an abbreviation of "Too long; Didn't read"
Oh. Well, glad to know that you only believe the parts of the Bible that you agree with, instead of just believing what it teaches. :idunno:
Who gave you permission to interpret Sacred Scripture yourself, when your interpretation differs from the Church's own interpretation? 1st Timothy 3:15 (KJV)
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Too Lazy.........for 'TL'
Too Lazy.........for 'TL'
Thanks JR,
I find that ridiculous, besides a 'cop-out' to avoid engaging a real dialogue that is bringing up important points and considerations challenging one's religious beliefs, opinions and assumptions. But one who already has a 'church' to worship and her 'magisterium', well....they have their religious programming down so PAT and her claim to 'apostolic succession', (self claimed authority) that being just one more drone in the beehive spouting the 'decorum' of 'orthodoxy' is just another trumpet in the chorus, singing the traditional church-song (join the march). Oh, I better be careful,...this might be TOO LONG to read.
Good lordy.
Too Lazy.........for 'TL'
Thanks JR,
I find that ridiculous, besides a 'cop-out' to avoid engaging a real dialogue that is bringing up important points and considerations challenging one's religious beliefs, opinions and assumptions. But one who already has a 'church' to worship and her 'magisterium', well....they have their religious programming down so PAT and her claim to 'apostolic succession', (self claimed authority) that being just one more drone in the beehive spouting the 'decorum' of 'orthodoxy' is just another trumpet in the chorus, singing the traditional church-song (join the march). Oh, I better be careful,...this might be TOO LONG to read.
Good lordy.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
The question is what 'church' do you refer too? If the RCC and her papal claims, then you hold 'tradition' on par with 'scripture' and it even has its own authority by itself, as passed down by the apostles (or so believed). The greater mystical body of Christ has many members in various denominations within traditional Christendom, and outside of the so claimed 'orthodox', since the RCC has no monopoly on 'truth'. While true devotees of Jesus may be in her organization, it is not the only community with true disciples of the Christ. Remember, Jesus said the spirit of truth would guide us.
TL ; DR
John 6:44-45 ASV
44 No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God.Isa 54:13, Jer 31:34 Every one that hath heard from the Father, and hath learned, cometh unto me.
Nihilo Pope Translation:
"And they shall all be taught of the Vicar of Dagon Oannes."
And of course Nihilo's popes, cardinals, bishops, and mother church claim to have the authority to change the scriptures whenever and wherever they see fit: and they did exactly that, in many places. It is nothing more than a modern Dagon-Oannes cult because they claim exclusive authority to pervert holy ancient writings which they stole from other cultures and people who existed long before they did. Nihilo does not care what the scripture actually says; that is why he beats everyone over the head with "the Catholic INTERPRETATION", for only his popes and church are allowed to interpret what the scripture says: you are not allowed to think for yourself in his cult because the TRUE ELOHIM might show you that you are enslaved in a Babylonian fertility cult.
KingdomRose
New member
You might say that, but the Church has always called him the Twelfth Apostle.
No that's Ricky.
Do I dare utter it?......The Church is wrong.:jawdrop:
KingdomRose
New member
But the RCC did not begin with the lives of the Apostles. It began with the apostate "wolves" that entered into the flock AFTER the last Apostle died. If you believe the word of men over the word of the Bible, then you will be easily fooled into believing anything.
Scripture tells us to obey the elders in the church, but we have to be talking about the right church! Your church tells you that tradition outweighs Scripture. So who are ya going to believe---men or Scripture? It has been shown to you from the Bible that the man you call "the first pope" stated that Matthias was the 12th Apostle, yet you reject that. Men over Scripture?
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Wow........
Wow........
Are you serious? Really. That wasn't that long, omg.
If you're too lazy, pompous or uninterested to respond and actually have a dialogue, you can just put me on ignore. I may still engage and respond to your posts among others in the interest of sharing thoughts, perspectives and opinions. What is shared is put out into the universe and will be interpreted by different minds in many different ways, that's the joy of 'dialogue'. Responding with 'TL ; DR' doesn't contribute to discussion, but is a underhanded (apathetic) way to 'avoid' confronting the points shared.
Wow........
Are you serious? Really. That wasn't that long, omg.
If you're too lazy, pompous or uninterested to respond and actually have a dialogue, you can just put me on ignore. I may still engage and respond to your posts among others in the interest of sharing thoughts, perspectives and opinions. What is shared is put out into the universe and will be interpreted by different minds in many different ways, that's the joy of 'dialogue'. Responding with 'TL ; DR' doesn't contribute to discussion, but is a underhanded (apathetic) way to 'avoid' confronting the points shared.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Pointy pontiff hats........
Pointy pontiff hats........
Yowsa
Be careful daqq,....that may be TOO LONG For Nihilo to read.
From my view, all is resolved because 'God' is the sole central, universal, eternal and infinite reality, omnipresently so. Always, forever, within and without. This view of Spirit is of course a bit too much for some, since is beholds 'God' as the sole absolute reality, while all else is but 'relative' in relation to it, and undergoes distortion to varying degrees in the process of translation/interpretation...but this is how information is carried,....as the 'logos' of the Spirit is filtered thru mortal minds. - all 'translation/interpretation' is a modification or distortion attempting to represent the original idea, essence or thought.
Anyways,.....I remember in the chatbox some time ago having fun speaking about 'pontificating',...and telling another that doing so was like wearing pointy pontiff hats It would be like a conference room of many popes (or cardinals depending on the hat of the day) debating,...bobbing those hats together as in a sword duel - anyways, I digress....but do enjoy seeing some universal pagan ideas, teachings and concepts "popping" up in the 'church', (gasp) - some of these adaptations were inevitable, since universal precepts and principles were already intuited by 'country folk'(pagans) who were in tune with the Creator naturally by being in tune with Creation (Nature). Just like most religious feasts and festivals revolve around the moving of the sun, moon and stars, and reflect the transformation of consciousness in the soul of man as he ascends in God-consciousness, becoming the 'Christ' (the anointed one, realizing his sonship with God), one new creation or 'begetting' by spiritual rebirth into the kingdom.
Pointy pontiff hats........
Yowsa
Be careful daqq,....that may be TOO LONG For Nihilo to read.
From my view, all is resolved because 'God' is the sole central, universal, eternal and infinite reality, omnipresently so. Always, forever, within and without. This view of Spirit is of course a bit too much for some, since is beholds 'God' as the sole absolute reality, while all else is but 'relative' in relation to it, and undergoes distortion to varying degrees in the process of translation/interpretation...but this is how information is carried,....as the 'logos' of the Spirit is filtered thru mortal minds. - all 'translation/interpretation' is a modification or distortion attempting to represent the original idea, essence or thought.
Anyways,.....I remember in the chatbox some time ago having fun speaking about 'pontificating',...and telling another that doing so was like wearing pointy pontiff hats
It would be like a conference room of many popes (or cardinals depending on the hat of the day) debating,...bobbing those hats together as in a sword duel - anyways, I digress....but do enjoy seeing some universal pagan ideas, teachings and concepts "popping" up in the 'church', (gasp) - some of these adaptations were inevitable, since universal precepts and principles were already intuited by 'country folk'(pagans) who were in tune with the Creator naturally by being in tune with Creation (Nature). Just like most religious feasts and festivals revolve around the moving of the sun, moon and stars, and reflect the transformation of consciousness in the soul of man as he ascends in God-consciousness, becoming the 'Christ' (the anointed one, realizing his sonship with God), one new creation or 'begetting' by spiritual rebirth into the kingdom.
KingdomRose
New member
I see One Universal Reality as the Creative Source of all life, call it 'God', 'Deity' or whatever 'name' or 'symbol' that you deem most 'suitable'. I try to look out from this Universal One, which is a universal unity, which is all pervading and all transcending at once, being that which is truly INFINITE. This 'infinity' is pure Spirit, it is pure consciousness, from whose essence all existence, all forms, all creation springs. It is One; It is All. This Deity-Source which is the Heart of all, is the essence of life itself; IT is even Nameless, because its reality is prior to words, thoughts, concepts, images, form. - of course man has given 'God' many different names, or have religious records where 'God' claims to reveal his name(s).
Now as to Jesus being YHWH, that is a matter of opinion, perspective, cult and creed. - this is why I propose on a practical level a Unitarian view, and challenge Trinitarians with what advantage, benefit or higher truth does their 'view' afford, apart from being a 'relational model', where 3 personalities exist in one essential 'Godhead'. Even from a more liberal Unitarian perspective,...the Spirit of God is the One in which the many inhere, so 'God' is still metaphysically...as a 'Manifold One',....since the multiplicity of Creation arises within the Infinity of the Creator. 'Elohim' is a plural unity, an indivisible One, yet all divisions, dualities, multiples derive their existence and generation from within the ONE. - you can cut your 'metaphysics' in so many ways,....:surf:
Always, no matter what theology or Christology you hold,...the Universal Father is the Infinite ONE, the First Source and Center of all things and beings,....nothing surpasses the PRIMACY of The FATHER, since there is no other that is the source, the Sole Progenitor of all. This Deity is INVISIBLE, as pure Spirit, Mind, Energy, Soul,...incorporeal, indivisible in essence, but multiple in form. The One can extend or divide itself into '3', '7', '12' and so on.....since all multiples derive their numerical values, equations and relations...from One ('1').
~*~*~
So how do you think your responses on the OP have done so far?
Very good, and I especially like yours. But I still have a problem with the idea that the One Universal Reality that I call God---being pure Spirit (as in "unadulterated") and from whom everything exists---can truly be pure and "one" (as in one set of truthful realities) if He accepts any and all of men's ideas, whether true or false. How can He say it's all right to believe in a literal hell-fire, and it's also OK to believe there's not one? How can it be all right with Him that men call Him kind and loving and it's also OK if men think of him as brutish and maniacal? He takes ANYTHING? I believe He has one set of standards, to which He desires all to adhere.
I also don't think that He is necessarily keen on dividing Himself into any number. The Scripture says He is "One" and He is YHWH. And He says: "O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea." (Is.48:18) If He accepts ANYTHING, then what is He talking about there---paying attention to HIS commandments? Is He commanding that everyone do his own thing? And if He is, then why is He lamenting the fact that people are not paying attention?
KingdomRose
New member
Excellent point!!!okay, whatever that stands for
Not all subscribe to your particular 'church politics or tradition' (RCC or otherwise). Don't forget the subject here is about Jesus being YHWH which many of the Unitarians have provided ample logics and 'proof-texts' to show that Jesus is not YHWH, if by 'YHWH' we mean the identity of the Father. Remember, not to confuse the persons, even though they are all 'merged' together as one ethereal essence (you know the drill). - those church fathers and others just melded together greek philosophical concepts and pagan intuitions from the schools of universal wisdom from antiquity and formulated (hypothesized) a Trinitarian compound of sorts and branded it 'orthodox', a 'creed' befitting her purposes so that the 'church' and her charter could carry on and prosper. If it works for you, go for it,...but your program, concept, or paradigm is not the only one in the cosmos 'working' so to speak. - and still John 3:16 works for everyone.
Nihilo might get something out of them if he'd read your posts.
KingdomRose
New member
Because the Scriptures indicate that there were only 12 official Apostles. (See Luke 6:13.)
KingdomRose
New member
As previously posted, Paul is only an honorary "Apostle," having not been chosen with the 12 (see Luke 6:13-16.) He would technically be the 13th "Apostle." Probably with tongue-in-cheek.
Nihilo, what does Acts 1:26 say?
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Hi KR,
I hear ya, and I know you come from an exclusively 'biblical' context',....and you know I'm pretty eclectic
- I don't subscribe to an 'anything goes' theology, although some may get that idea, (misconstrued)...for from the One Infinite Spirit comes those laws, principles and values that are wholly consonant with its own divine nature, character and constitution. So for sure,....the divine nature being indivisible and true to itself, would hold to all those qualities, attributes and activities that are 'divine'....and govern his kingdom thereby. Indeed,...the most ancient and universal schools of knowledge (esoteric science)...all recognize the Source as being ONE, and all existence expressing as Creation, as being a 'manifold One'.....so it depends on how we contextualize our terms and our spiritual perception of God's omnipresence also pertains. Indeed, God and his logos are one, since what comes from the heart and soul of Spirit, is its own creation, offspring, creative expression,...an extension of Himself.
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