The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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Ok, that makes sense. thank you.
Lon
Well-known member
.
Yeah, I'm not a JW so you are correct on that point. There is no way I could be.
Simpleton? Idiot? :think: I'll leave you with your own thoughts and whatever you think is intelligent.
Yeah, I'm not a JW so you are correct on that point. There is no way I could be.
Simpleton? Idiot? :think: I'll leave you with your own thoughts and whatever you think is intelligent.
KingdomRose
New member
I have posted to you many times just what John 10:30 means. It is in line with John 17:20-23, which says that Jesus prays to the Father that his disciples may be "one" just as he is "one" with the Father. You insist on ignoring that. If the disciples can be "one" with the Father, then, according to you, they are also God. Can you explain that, Evil?
Jesus, God the Son of God, submits to God, the Father of God the Son of God.
That is why God has a God, because God the Son submits to God the Father.
If anyone is the simpleton who cannot understand a very basic concept, it is you.
KingdomRose
New member
To respond to JudgeRightly's post #7613:
Yes, sir, your last few words are exactly what the best translation is. "Your throne, the God," meaning "Your throne = the God", or, "Your throne is God." The same exact thing as "God is your throne." The verses are saying that the Son's throne gets its power and authority from God. That's it, pure and simple. All of your extra words are unnecessary and meaningless.
Yes, sir, your last few words are exactly what the best translation is. "Your throne, the God," meaning "Your throne = the God", or, "Your throne is God." The same exact thing as "God is your throne." The verses are saying that the Son's throne gets its power and authority from God. That's it, pure and simple. All of your extra words are unnecessary and meaningless.
"That his disciples may be one" does not continue "with the Father just as Christ is one with the Father". It is a separate statement. The disciples should be one group of people, just like Christ is one with His Father.
KingdomRose
New member
That is not what John 17:20-23 says. The disciples were to be one WITH THE FATHER AND JESUS. :idea: Has the light come on yet?
Lon
Well-known member
:nono: Heb 1:8
πρὸς δὲ τὸν υἱόν· ὁ θρόνος σου, ὁ Θεός, εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος· ῥάβδος εὐθύτητος ἡ ῥάβδος τῆς βασιλείας σου.
[however/but]To the son He [God from verse 5 on]: The throne of you, God is forever and forever, a septre of right is the sceptre of [your] rule/kingdom.
Lon
Well-known member
Yep. There is no way to dishonor the Son without blaspheming Him.
Blasphemy:
- A contemptuous or profane act, utterance, or writing concerning God or a sacred entity.
Thomas worshipped Him as God. John 1:1 calls Him God
-The act of claiming for oneself the attributes and rights of God.
Calling ourselves 'gods' only in the sense we are created in His image. The Lord Jesus Christ is the 'exact' representation of the Father and to
be honored just as we honor the Father. You cannot do that unless you have a modalist or triune understanding. It is, thus blasphemy by definition and by the call of scripture.
-An irreverent or impious act, attitude, or utterance in regard to something considered inviolable or sacrosanct.
Certainly denying one worthy of worship, that worship, isn't sacrosanct,but irreverent (no reverence for the Son) and impious in that they are 'gods' just as the Lord Jesus Christ is 'a god.'
I do not use the word blasphemy lightly. It is a grievous assessment.
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Twisting scripture to suit your argument? Naughty naughty.
A throne is not God. God is not a throne, not even symbolically, and as far as I'm aware, there is absolutely no Scripture that supports that claim, not even this one.
Let's just use the English version, for a moment:
But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. - Hebrews 1:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews1:8&version=NKJV
Do you think that the people who translated this into English were stupid? Or do you think that maybe they would have had respect for God's word and done their best to not mistranslate it?
Did you even stop and consider the first part of the verse? "But to the Son He says:". So there is, at the very least, a one sided conversation going on here. (Yes, I know, not in the context verses surrounding this one.) as with any conversation, KR, there are times when people say things in the middle of sentences such as names or titles (and yes, i just gave you an example of such). What makes you think that this verse is any different?
I suggest you read this. It directly refutes what you are saying about "God is your throne."
http://www.ukapologetics.net/16/jwtrans.htm
"I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, {notice the comma there} as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me." - John 17:20-23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John17:20-23&version=NKJV
Lon
Well-known member
No. That light is an assumption, perpetrated by Arians and Unitarians and Mormons who all want to be 'gods' not have a God. The end of every cult dream is a planet of your own, NOT one-ness fellowship with the Father and Son. If you were thinking about His oneness, you'd realize love is unity with Him. The Son is God and always was. He was never created. At least Keypurr understands this part. We were never 'spirit' children waiting for human bodies. We are finite creations of God. Jesus is not. From forever to forever He is the same. 1 Timothy 6:16
Lon
Well-known member
1Ti 6:3 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness,
1Ti 6:4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions,
1Ti 6:5 and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.
1Ti 6:14 to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Ti 6:15 which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
1Ti 6:16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.
1Ti 6:4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions,
1Ti 6:5 and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.
1Ti 6:14 to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Ti 6:15 which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
1Ti 6:16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.
Here is a better representation of Hebrews 1:8:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Let us look at this verse and we can find the answer as to how God can have a God:
"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-7).
Before the Lord Jesus was born of Mary He was in "the form of God." On earth He was made like us in all things and made under the law and was sent to serve the Father. Since He was under the Law like all Jews He worshipped the God of Israel. So that is how God has a God. And this passage proves that the Lord Jesus is God:
"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom" (Heb.1:8).
keypurr
Well-known member
I looked and could not find one that keeps the commandments of God and the testamony of Jesus Christ.
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keypurr
Well-known member
Just to clearly my thoughts
Jesus was born (created) in Mary.
The spirit son is also a created being as he is an image.
Only the true God the Father is uncreated.
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keypurr
Well-known member
The only way God can have a God is to be a god.
There is only one most high God. The Father.
Christ was and always be in subjection to his God.
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