Still lacking basic scientific knowledge I see.
creation vs evolution
- Thread starter jason69
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Still lacking basic scientific knowledge I see.
Interplanner
Well-known member
To Jason69,
the dilemma of some kind of belief in both is answered in the unusual or unexpected method of creation. This method is found in the original chapters, and then in the recaps in Psalms or even as late as the New Testament: God spoke things into existence. I think we are to assume that natural laws as we know them were constantly abridged or trumped.
For ex., when Christ walks on water in the synoptics, that overrules natural laws, but we also see in the same episode that when he tells the water to be calm, it happens quickly. Any mariner will tell you that it normally takes hours either to build up a wave system or for it to dissipate. Yet here we have a storm surge that has experienced fishermen pleading for their lives one minute, and the next it is calm. He speaks and things change. So a 'naturalized' view of this miracle would also miss the point.
The dialectic of creation and evolution into a third kind of reality would miss the same point.
Lewis addressed this in 'Science and Religion' in GOD IN THE DOCK. Uniformitarian mathematics will tell you that 'one coin will be placed in the drawer each day' (in Lewis' analogy) at a regular pace, so that 23 days from now you will have 23 coins. It (U. M.) can never hope to explain disruptions, interruptions, theft, excesses that will happen. For that, you have to find another kind of person to explain things.
U'ism seeks total control of all data, to avoid the embarrassing reality that the world is actually quite a catastrophic place where lots of disruptive and excessive events have happened. For ex., the current theory on the entire central sedimentary area of Australia is that it formed very quickly, so quickly and powerfully that it 'folded' Ayers rock's subterranean section , which is some 10x the size of the piece showing on the surface, and is unpolished granite (it happened recently).
creation vs evolution
Most so called scientific knowledge sits on an assumption.
What proof is there that a rodent evolved into a giraffe? And if all these animals evolved into 'higher beings' how come the 'lower beings' still exist?
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Most so called scientific knowledge sits on an assumption.
What proof is there that a rodent evolved into a giraffe? And if all these animals evolved into 'higher beings' how come the 'lower beings' still exist?
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
I know exactly how the heavens and the earth became. Nearly 7,000 years ago.
Your knowledge is incorrect.
If it were my knowledge I would probably have to agree, but it's not mine.
But you said "I know exactly..." so your knowledge. Otherwise you don't know. Same way as it is your knowledge that lets you use your computer and internet.
Don't you understand the concept of a gift. It becomes yours to use and enjoy, but you didn't acquire it by any means of your own.
So you don't really "know" anything that you get via gift?
Are you just being stupid for comedic effect?
You wrote that you knew something but it was not your knowledge then you tried to explain that inconsistency away by making a reference to a gift. You need to explain that better if someone is to understand what you mean. You wrote "I know exactly how the heavens and the earth became. Nearly 7,000 years ago." How did you come to "know" that despite the fact that your did not acquire that knowledge by "any means of your own"?
6days
New member
There are only two choices.
1) Nothing caused everything
2) Something which existed eternally caused everything.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Jonah what is your word, then, for information from an ancient source which you have reason to believe is revealed from God (a higher, infinite, person)?
third choice: We dont really know what caused everything. I know that the possibility of not knowing gives you a rash, but there we are.
Since I do not believe there is such a person, I guess my word would be "who cares" or perhaps "nonsense".
Interplanner
Well-known member
But we do know quite a bit about Jonah, that narrows it down. Who ever did it made the cochlea work the first time, and a million other first time successes, calling for an infinite amount of design and production. There is no problem about this in the Christian view, because it says 'He spoke...and it came into being.'
I suggest you read "Your Inner Fish" by Neil Shubin. My recollection is that he discusses the cochlea. And there is not reason for the cochlea or any other body part to work the first time. In a sense that is the mechanism of evolution. Trial and error.
Interplanner
Well-known member
There are a million reasons for them not to work in the situations and environments that uniformitarian evolution says they were in, like my goats eating rhododendron which is poisonous to them. Or the wrong amount of oxygen in a chicken egg before the chick can peck out.
Denial of design no longer seems very popular among scientists, they would rather move on a say 'OK, there is design, but there are many 'mistakes' and we will fix them.'
To really do philosophy properly, every option must be on the table until shown otherwise. An infinite and personal deity would be one of those options, the person speaking-into-existence in finished, working, reproducing form in Genesis.
Dear jason69,
What is this? A rehash of my old thread? We know that there is only One God Who created/made the Universe, and the Earth, and the Sun, and the Moon. And Man, and Woman. Why do you try to make it difficult?? There is and never was any evolution. God did it all, and by Him altering genes or RNA, or even atoms and nuclei/protons, etc., He created all that He had in His Imagination according to what He wanted to create. Evolution didn't do all of that. God made the chicken hen and rooster of a mature age, instead of just creating an egg, which would be younger indeed. So what came first, the chicken or the egg? Well, the chicken first of course, who had to be given the seed inside itself to procreate by a rooster that He also created. Male and female He created the chicken; rooster and hen. And God created man not as a baby, but instead an aged youth/man. If God wants to create an aged Universe and Earth, what is That To You???!! Our God Did!! Get it through your heads!! Man's stupid aging techniques beg for truthfulness. They are the imagination of men who seek to corrupt the minds of men and women. Their science is found wanting. And I was also told that Jesus is returning extremely soon, but don't ask me for the date. Only God knows that. I can't wait for Him to return and I am always in great joy as I wait!!
It's All Plausible! God Speaks, It Is!!
Michael
6days
New member
You might have a difficult time deciding, but there are still only 2 possibilities.
1) Nothing caused everything
2) Something which existed eternally caused everything.