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Thread: Common views of God and time.

  1. #106
    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    Correct.

    And for us people who believe God is immutable, we have peace knowing that God will not change His mind about it.
    I have peace that He will not change His mind over my salvation also.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
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    Patron Saint of SMACK Delmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    Do you believe God “creates” souls?

    I assume your answer is “yes”. Unless you are a traducianist the soul is imparted to us at birth from God. So, when were these souls created? I was born in 1964, my dad in 1937, my grandfather in 1905, etc.

    Does God create these souls on an “as need basis” (thousands each day)? Were they all created in eternity past? Did my soul exist anywhere or anyhow before March 22, 1964?
    Nothing you have said in this post describes what I believe, but I think this is off topic for this thread.

  3. #108
    Never, never, never give up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    Do you believe God “creates” souls?

    I assume your answer is “yes”. Unless you are a traducianist the soul is imparted to us at birth from God. So, when were these souls created? I was born in 1964, my dad in 1937, my grandfather in 1905, etc.

    Does God create these souls on an “as need basis” (thousands each day)? Were they all created in eternity past? Did my soul exist anywhere or anyhow before March 22, 1964?
    Did you have a point to make? Because I don't want to get way off track by talking about how souls are generated.
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    LIFETIME MEMBER tetelestai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    tetelestai, you can let God out! You can trust Him! He will keep His word because His is righteous and just.
    I don't know Knight, if I were an open theist, I might have to keep Him locked up:
    Quote Originally Posted by godrulz View Post
    When God changes His mind in Scripture from an OVT perspective,.....
    What if He changes His mind?
    (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

  5. #110
    Never, never, never give up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    What if He changes His mind?
    God has given us the Holy Spirit as a guarantee (2Corinthians 1:22, 2Corinthians 5:5, Ephesians 1:14). I trust God and His guarantee. If the only way we can trust God is to freeze Him solid so that He cannot move, what kind of a relationship is that?
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    LIFETIME MEMBER tetelestai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    Did you have a point to make? Because I don't want to get way off track by talking about how souls are generated.
    Well I was going to make my point with (Eph 1:4)

    According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    But then I remembered that the open theist has to claim this is a corporate election so that it fits with open theism. so never mind.
    (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

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    Patron Saint of SMACK Delmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    I don't know Knight, if I were an open theist, I might have to keep Him locked up:


    What if He changes His mind?
    I would so enjoy going all Sozo on you right now, but Knight said to set a new tone.

    tetelestai
    Can I assume that you would affirm that God's righteous character never changes?

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    No, that would make God an immutable and impassable God, not an inanimate object.
    Immutable, impassible, static? Personal, living, dynamic, responsive!

    Trust us, classical immutability and impassibility is Platonic, flawed, not biblical.

    God is faithful, not fickle. This does not mean that He cannot change in some ways (relations, etc.) or that change has to be inconsistent with His great character and attributes. God allows himself to be influenced through prayer (hence no impassibility). This does not have to be seen as a compromise of His power or sovereignty (it is not).
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

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  9. #114
    Never, never, never give up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    Well I was going to make my point with (Eph 1:4)

    According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    But then I remembered that the open theist has to claim this is a corporate election so that it fits with open theism. so never mind.


    Good job, I appreciate you at least acknowledging that. I really do. I realize you don't agree with it but that fact that you acknowledged it saves us all time and wastes fewer posts.
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  10. #115
    Never, never, never give up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delmar View Post
    I would so enjoy going all Sozo on you right now, but Knight said to set a new tone.
    The new tone is a general guideline not a set in stone rule. TOL is not immutable.
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  11. #116
    Over 750 post club The Graphite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    And for us people who believe God is immutable, we have peace knowing that God will not change His mind about it.
    In other words...

    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    And for us people who believe God is imprisoned and bound to a script, we have peace knowing that God is stuck like an inanimate object made of stone, much like the man-made idols that Isaiah denounced.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER tetelestai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delmar View Post
    I would so enjoy going all Sozo on you right now, but Knight said to set a new tone.
    That's not until Jan 1st, so go ahead while you still can.
    (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    Fair enough, but just becuase it doesn't work in your brain doesn't mean it isn't true.

    The only way God can have exhaustive foreknowledge and us free will at the same time is for God to be outside of time. Then it works.
    This does not resolve the issue. You are still saying the future exists before we exist or make the choices that eventually are part of the future. You cannot just assume something. At a more technical level, some have shown that your assumptions do not stand. Timelessness does not solve the problems of the incompatibility of free will/EDF. Timelessness might support determinism, but not free will (Arminians assume it without being able to prove these things; Open Theists refute them and propose a more coherent position; middle knowledge is a mess).
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

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    Over 750 post club The Graphite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    I don't know Knight, if I were an open theist, I might have to keep Him locked up:
    If you were an Open Theist, you'd know that you can't keep Him locked up.

    What if He changes His mind?
    The Lord only changes His mind in such a way that He maintains His unwaveringly loving and just character. And that is something we can trust, because EVERY example of His changing His mind in scripture demonstrates exactly that.

    Which is why said earlier that:

    Fulfilled prophecy is evidence for the God of the Bible.

    Unfulfilled prophecy is evidence that the God of the Bible is righteous!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    Do you believe God “creates” souls?

    I assume your answer is “yes”. Unless you are a traducianist the soul is imparted to us at birth from God. So, when were these souls created? I was born in 1964, my dad in 1937, my grandfather in 1905, etc.

    Does God create these souls on an “as need basis” (thousands each day)? Were they all created in eternity past? Did my soul exist anywhere or anyhow before March 22, 1964?
    Our reality/being starts at conception. Mormons and Origen say that souls pre-exist (they are wrong).
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

    "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

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