The Olive Tree

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The Olive Tree analogy is in regard to "bearing fruit", or "service" under the Abrahamic Covenant. At the time when the nation of Israel was bearing fruit the Lord called them an Olive Tree:

"The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, [and] of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken" (Jer.11:16).​

The Olive Tree was an important tree for the Israelites because it was a source of food and light for them. For hundreds of years the olive was eaten as a staple food and olive oil has been used for cooking and in lamps for light. The oil of the olive was also used for anointing in religious ceremonies.

Israel remained an Olive Tree as long as that nation continued under the Abrahamic covenant in her duty to serve the Lord:

"The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve Him without fear in holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life"
(Lk.1:73-75).​

By serving Him the nation was to be the "light of the world". The Lord Jesus told that nation:

"Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid....Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven"
(Mt.5:14,16).​

Since that nation crucified the Lord Jesus and later persecuted His disciples most of the Jews were "broken off" from serving Him. The Jews were the "natural" branches of the Olive Tree since they were the natural descendants of Abraham:

"Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee"
(Ro.11:20,21).​

The Gentile believers are described as branches from the "wild Olive Tree":

"For if thou were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree"
(Ro.11:24).​

The Gentile believers are described in this way because Abraham is not their "natural" father but instead he is their father because they "walk in the steps of that faith" of Abraham:

"And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised"
(Ro.4:12).​

So now both the Jewish believers and the Gentile believers are the branches of the Olive Tree:

"And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree"
(Ro.11:17).​
 
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Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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What would you say to the idea that the olive tree is literal Israel and the wild olive tree is the True vine... Jesus?

Simple Conjecture... but it seems many are confused by the meaning of this analogy because of Replacement Theology, which has clearly snaked its way into much.
 

clefty

New member
What would you say to the idea that the olive tree is literal Israel and the wild olive tree is the True vine... Jesus?

Simple Conjecture... but it seems many are confused by the meaning of this analogy because of Replacement Theology, which has clearly snaked its way into much.

Ouch...sounds like something a GMO would try...

1)Biological laws demand same families of fruit for grafts to work...grapevines won't graft to olive trees...

2)Literal Israel was a shaky tree at best and typically gardeners use better trunks for grafting fruitful branches on to...it is not typical to graft a good branch on a poor quality trunk and root...

He remains the Gardener and does the deciding which tree stays or is cursed and which branch is pruned for lack of faith...and which branches of wild olives are added to be domesticated...
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Ouch...sounds like something a GMO would try...

1)Biological laws demand same families of fruit for grafts to work...grapevines won't graft to olive trees...

2)Literal Israel was a shaky tree at best and typically gardeners use better trunks for grafting fruitful branches on to...it is not typical to graft a good branch on a poor quality trunk and root...

He remains the Gardener and does the deciding which tree stays or is cursed and which branch is pruned for lack of faith...and which branches of wild olives are added to be domesticated...

Keep "Barking" up "this" tree and you'll get to know me "real" well.

#warning shot with a pun

Do you stand against the validity of literal Israel?
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Wow...that spirit reveals much to why you need the olive tree to still be physical Israel...

I will forever count you a brother or sister in Christ.

However, I note certain things worldwide and amongst the church.

Care to keep assuming?

# you came to derail this thread... I'm not going to roll over like a pansy. My kindness gets mistaken for weakness...

Now... Is Jesus God to you?
 

clefty

New member
I will forever count you a brother or sister in Christ.

However, I note certain things worldwide and amongst the church.

Care to keep assuming?

# you came to derail this thread... I'm not going to roll over like a pansy. My kindness gets mistaken for weakness...

Now... Is Jesus God to you?

Derail? Just offered biological laws kinda help the metaphor along...

Just like terms and symbols help us better understand our worship...

Like Father like Son...
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Clefty,

If you believe Jesus is God, then your further beliefs are more at peace with me.

please tell me what these verses mean to you.

Acts 1:11-12; Zechariah 14:4; Joel 3:2; Romans 11:25-36
 

clefty

New member
Clefty,

If you believe Jesus is God, then your further beliefs are more at peace with me.

please tell me what these verses mean to you.

That people are really hung up on literal Israel and thereby fulfilling prophecy whether literal or symbolically...

Observing what Zionists have accomplished they might still "trigger" Him...His return...

Wouldn't be the first time He made good with something evil...but it will be His last time...



That text in Acts also reminds me that the Sabbath was even still useful as measurement for distance...this after the New covenant age was established...supposedly with Sabbaths abolished...

Might mean He ascended on a Sabbath...nothing more restful healing and refreshing than going Home...
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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That people are really hung up on literal Israel and thereby fulfilling prophecy whether literal or symbolically...

Observing what Zionists have accomplished they might still "trigger" Him...His return...

Wouldn't be the first time He made good with something evil...but it will be His last time...



That text in Acts also reminds me that the Sabbath was even still useful as measurement for distance...this after the New covenant age was established...supposedly with Sabbaths abolished...

Might mean He ascended on a Sabbath...nothing more restful healing and refreshing than going Home...

Consider this... by saying Zionism brought Israel back, you are saying the Bible is a self fulfilled prophecy. When Jesus was born, why did so few show up?
 

clefty

New member
Consider this... by saying Zionism brought Israel back, you are saying the Bible is a self fulfilled prophecy. When Jesus was born, why did so few show up?

By saying Zionism brought Israel back is saying the bible knows exactly what why and who Satan will use to attempt his overthrow of Yah.

By saying Zionism brought Israel back is exactly why some Jews reject it as it was to have been the Messiah Himself that established it...

Much like Jews were waiting the first time for a warrior king to reestablish the glory of Israel and throw off the Romans et al...even His disciples even after the death and resurrection wanted as much...

Confusing the promise of Abraham becoming a great nation above nations with being spiritual blessing to all families who by Israel would come to know YAH...no wonder so few showed up for His birth...a savior from sin not secular power

maybe if there had been more Christmass trees and eggnog and all the other stuff His new wife created to make Him more appealing and seducing the world drunk on her wine more people would have showed up for His birthday party...all she did however with all this was make herself more like His first wife Israel than an obedient faithful new bride...

As it happened it was one Simon who remembered the promise to Adam and Eve of a Seed which went through faithful and obedient Abraham that all the world through him would come to be blessed by knowing Him...


Simon says "Master, now you are dismissing your servant in peace, according to your word; for my eyes have seen your salvation, which you have prepared in the presence of all peoples, a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to your people Israel”

"Then Simeon blessed them and said to Mary, his mother: "This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel" again it is not the nation of Israel but those in Israel...His people...

He is the light for revelation of His Father to the Gentiles and for glory TO your people Israel...NOT glory of your people Israel...

There is a difference...the messiah made Israel glorious...it was not of itself glorious...

And when she killed Him, her husband, that vow they made "until death" was kept and she was released...

And now only the ones that accept Him His way, not for secular power and glory, but for spiritual blessing and salvation are known as His people...His body...Israel...
 
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Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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By saying Zionism brought Israel back is saying the bible knows exactly what why and who Satan will use to attempt his overthrow of Yah.

By saying Zionism brought Israel back is exactly what some Jews reject it as it was to have been the Messiah Himself that established it...

Much like Jews were waiting the first time for a warrior king to reestablish the glory of Israel and throw off the Romans et al...even His disciples even after the death and resurrection wanted as much...

Confusing the promise of Abraham as great nation above nations with spiritual blessing to all families who by Israel would come to know YAH...no wonder so few showed up for His birth...

maybe if there had been more Christmass trees and eggnog and all the other stuff His new wife created to make Him more appealing and seducing the world drunk on her wine more people would have showed up...

As it happened it was one who remembered the promise to Adam and Eve of a Seed which went through faithful and obedient Abraham that all the world through him would come to be blessed by knowing Him


Simon says "Master, now you are dismissing your servant in peace, according to your word; for my eyes have seen your salvation, which you have prepared in the presence of all peoples, a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to your people Israel”

He is the light for revelation of His Father to the Gentiles and for glory TO your people Israel...NOT glory of your people Israel...

There is a difference...the messiah made Israel glorious...it was not of itself glorious...

And only the ones that accepted Him His way...known now as His people

So the Jews thought Messiah was only coming for them the first time... how did that work out for them?

Now the Christians think Messiah is only for them...

Think
 

clefty

New member
So the Jews thought Messiah was only coming for them the first time... how did that work out for them?

Now the Christians think Messiah is only for them...

Think

Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.” (James 1:22)

It will be the idolatry of those that insist another temple and world wars to establish it that will cause divine intervention...the remnant do not play along with such abominations...ascribing holiness to the profane is exactly idolatry and the Holy Spirit has left that land and its relics long ago

New Jerusalem comes down...it is not built up...

We are in the world not of it...those of it want another temple...the power behind it not Him...
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.” (James 1:22)

It will be the idolatry of those that insist another temple and world wars to establish it that will cause divine intervention...the remnant do not play along with such abominations...ascribing holiness to the profane is exactly idolatry and the Holy Spirit has left that land and its relics long ago

New Jerusalem comes down...it is not built up...

We are in the world not of it...those of it want another temple...the power behind it not Him...

Jesus is the true temple. That last statement seemed to prick your conscience.

So the Jews thought Messiah was only coming for them the first time... how did that work out for them?

Now the Christians think Messiah is only for them...

Think
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
What would you say to the idea that the olive tree is literal Israel and the wild olive tree is the True vine... Jesus?

You are right that both the Olive Tree and the Vine are speaking about the same thing- "bearing fruit" (Jn.15:5).

One of the ways that we bear fruit is by serving the LORD by preaching the gospel and bringing others to the knowledge of the LORD. Another way is mentioned at Matthew 5:14-16.
 
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clefty

New member
Jesus is the true temple. That last statement seemed to prick your conscience.

So the Jews thought Messiah was only coming for them the first time... how did that work out for them?

Now the Christians think Messiah is only for them...

Think

Feel free to break it down for me bro...ain't got time for this cryptic "riddle me this batman" game...

Or I'll try to read ya on your other posts...
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
We are in the world not of it...those of it want another temple...the power behind it not Him...

Whether or not we want another temple there will be one in the future. The following prophecy shows the Lord Jesus returning, and when He returns there will indeed exist a rebuilt temple:

"Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to His temple...And He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and He shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years" (Mal.3:1,3,4).​

When the Lord Jesus walked the earth there was never a time when the "offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years." But in the future the Lord Jesus will "suddenly come to His temple" and then the offerings will indeed be pleasant to the LORD.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
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The Olive Tree analogy is in regard to "bearing fruit", or "service" under the Abrahamic Covenant. At the time when the nation of Israel was bearing fruit the Lord called them an Olive Tree:

"The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, [and] of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken" (Jer.11:16).​

The Olive Tree was an important tree for the Israelites because it was a source of food and light for them. For hundreds of years the olive was eaten as a staple food and olive oil has been used for cooking and in lamps for light. The oil of the olive was also used for anointing in religious ceremonies.

Israel remained an Olive Tree as long as that nation continued under the Abrahamic covenant in her duty to serve the Lord:

"The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve Him without fear in holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life"
(Lk.1:73-75).​

By serving Him the nation was to be the "light of the world". The Lord Jesus told that nation:

"Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid....Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven"
(Mt.5:14,16).​

Since that nation crucified the Lord Jesus and later persecuted His disciples most of the Jews were "broken off" from serving Him. The Jews were the "natural" branches of the Olive Tree since they were the natural descendants of Abraham:

"Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee"
(Ro.11:20,21).​

The Gentile believers are described as branches from the "wild Olive Tree":

"For if thou were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree"
(Ro.11:24).​

The Gentile believers are described in this way because Abraham is not their "natural" father but instead he is their father because they "walk in the steps of that faith" of Abraham:

"And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised"
(Ro.4:12).​

So now both the Jewish believers and the Gentile believers are the branches of the Olive Tree:

"And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree"
(Ro.11:17).​

Jerry, what your conclusion suggests is that the good olive tree is the BOC.
Is that what you meant to do?
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
I believe that in Ro 11, the olive tree is the position of privilege, testimony and blessing which flowed from the root, Abraham, which the nation of Israel once occupied but now is the position of the nations/gentiles which they have been grafted into.

Neither the nations/gentiles nor the BOC are grafted into Israel, nor is Israel taken out of Israel and then grafted back into Israel, which would be the case if Israel was the olive tree and to my thinking would be absurd.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
I believe that in Ro 11, the olive tree is the position of privilege, testimony and blessing which flowed from the root, Abraham, which the nation of Israel once occupied but now is the position of the nations/gentiles which they have been grafted into.

Neither the nations/gentiles nor the BOC are grafted into Israel, nor is Israel taken out of Israel and then grafted back into Israel, which would be the case if Israel was the olive tree and to my thinking would be absurd.

The olive tree represents all the faithful branches produced by faithful Abraham; both Jew and Gentile. (Romans 4:16)

Unfaithful branches(whether Jew or Gentile) are pruned away by God.
 
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