I am disgusted!

Mr. 5020 · Mar 29, 2005

ninjashadow said:
I think the real problem here is HOW they are letting her die. If it were a matter of "simply" pulling the plug and her heart stops and she dies immediately, I don't think that this would be as big a deal. However, having said that, what they are doing is torturing her. She is starving/dehydrating to death. I find it incredibly hard to believe that she told her 'husband', "Honey, if I ever wind up needing tubes to live, pull the tubes and let me slowly die a painful, miserable death."

You're absolutely right. The evilness in this plot is horrifying, at best. I struggle to maintain how one human can wish this upon another.

Mr. 5020 · Mar 29, 2005

Yorzhik said:
If you don't know, then don't say that those who do know are doing it wrong.

Not knowing how to do it right and knowing what is wrong are two separate things. Off the top of my head, I have no idea what 13 x 16 equals, but I know that 1,000,123,458,231,321.891 is the wrong answer.

Turbo · Mar 29, 2005

Mr. 5020 said:
I did not, at the time. Like I said earlier, I misunderstood.

OK. I edited the post to make the quote easier to distinguish.

I would never blaspheme the great Bob.

Excuse me for setting the record straight.

I'd have done the same if someone wrongly attributed something to you.

Mr. 5020 · Mar 29, 2005

Turbo said:
Excuse me for setting the record straight. I'd have done the same if someone wrongly attributed something to you.

It had already been set straight.

Yorzhik · Mar 29, 2005

Not knowing how to do it right and knowing what is wrong are two separate things. Off the top of my head, I have no idea what 13 x 16 equals, but I know that 1,000,123,458,231,321.891 is the wrong answer.

No, 5020, you can figure out the right answer for 13x16 if you think about it a little bit. You've had time to figure out this situation with Terri... and you still don't know the answer? It isn't that complicated. Only if you are a rock, like granite, could you have not figured it out. Only if you are more bothered by misbehaving protesters than judicial murder could you not figure it out.

Turbo · Mar 29, 2005

Mr. 5020 said:
The evilness in this plot is horrifying, at best. I struggle to maintain how one human can wish this upon another.

The trick is they de-humanize her. Have you noticed how many of the people who can't wait to see her murdered keep saying that she's "brain dead" or "in a vegetative state"? It's the same thing they do with unborn baby, saying "It's not a baby, it's a fetus" or "It's a blob of tissue." It's the same thing Nazi's and other eugenics proponents do to justify killing "human waste" and "sub-humans."

Imrahil · Mar 29, 2005

Mr. 5020 said:
I disagree. People can lose the sanctity of their own life by taking another. For example, if I hold you hostage, and threaten to shoot you in the head, it would not be wrong for a police sniper to blow my brains all over the place.

I didn't get a chance to bring this up earlier but would you agree that by the same logic, you would be right to stop an abortionist by similar means if necessary?

Mr. 5020 · Mar 29, 2005

Yorzhik said:
No, 5020, you can figure out the right answer for 13x16 if you think about it a little bit. You've had time to figure out this situation with Terri... and you still don't know the answer? It isn't that complicated. Only if you are a rock, like granite, could you have not figured it out. Only if you are more bothered by misbehaving protesters than judicial murder could you not figure it out.

In that case, what is your great idea for getting the truth spread out?

Mr. 5020 · Mar 29, 2005

Imrahil said:
I didn't get a chance to bring this up earlier but would you agree that by the same logic, you would be right to stop an abortionist by similar means if necessary?

No. One is against the law, and the other is not.

Zakath · Mar 29, 2005

Turbo said:
The trick is they de-humanize her. Have you noticed how many of the people who can't wait to see her murdered keep saying that she's "brain dead" or "in a vegetative state"?

But those descriptions can be medically accurate in certain situations. While Terri Shiavo is not "brain dead" she is in a PVS.

It's the same thing they do with unborn baby, saying "It's not a baby, it's a fetus" or "It's a blob of tissue."

It's a matter of perspective. All humans are, in some sense, a blob of tissue.

It's the same thing Nazi's and other eugenics proponents do to justify killing "human waste" and "sub-humans."

The trick is the Christians try to demonize their opponents by comparing them to "Nazis" or other traditionally evil groups. I've borne the brunt of such namecalling several times in the last week. Particularly after I voiced an unpopular opinion about one of TOL's heroes...

Imrahil · Mar 29, 2005

Mr. 5020 said:
No. One is against the law, and the other is not.

What if kidnapping, rape or murder is legalized? Would you then condemn that sniper?

Mr. 5020 · Mar 29, 2005

Zakath said:
The trick is the Christians try to demonize their opponents by comparing them to "Nazis" or other traditionally evil groups. I've borne the brunt of such namecalling several times in the last week. Particularly after I voiced an unpopular opinion about one of TOL's heroes...

Im starting to agree with you more and more... :shocked:

Mr. 5020 · Mar 29, 2005

Imrahil said:
What if kidnapping, rape or murder is legalized? Would you then condemn that sniper?

It's an unrealistic comparison.

Imrahil · Mar 29, 2005

Mr. 5020 said:
It's an unrealistic comparison.

Not at all. Murder of various peoples or groups (Jews, Christians etc.) has been legalized throughout history.

Mr. 5020 · Mar 29, 2005

Imrahil said:
Not at all. Murder of various peoples or groups (Jews, Christians etc.) has been legalized throughout history.

In that case, yes, I would condemn the sniper.

Yorzhik · Mar 29, 2005

In that case, what is your great idea for getting the truth spread out?

Post you opposition to Terri's murder on forums. Call your congress persons. If you can, go and protest and if you cannot, support churches that can. Take water to Terri. Tell the police what they are doing, and if they don't listen, tell them more forcefully. Send money to Churches that are sponsering protesters. Keep the police from doing their jobs easy by laying in the path where they are supposed to go. Where ever you go, tell people that Terri is being murdered and they shouldn't just passively ignore it. Write a column or editorial in the newspaper. If you have a radio show, keep it as a constant topic. Post how you oppose the murder on your blog. Make it a campaign issue in the next election. If people think of more things, don't discourage them.

Imrahil · Mar 29, 2005

Mr. 5020 said:
In that case, yes, I would condemn the sniper.

You would condemn him for killing a Christian or for killing the attacker of the Christian?

Yorzhik · Mar 29, 2005

In that case, yes, I would condemn the sniper.

How about the judge that ordered the sniper to murder the various people?

Mr. 5020 · Mar 29, 2005

Imrahil said:
You would condemn him for killing a Christian or for killing the attacker of the Christian?

The attacker of the Christian.

Mr. 5020 · Mar 29, 2005

Yorzhik said:
How about the judge that ordered the sniper to murder the various people?

That is illogical, because the legal system is against the sniper in this hypothetical situation.

I am disgusted!

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