User Tag List

Page 2 of 13 FirstFirst 1234512 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 190

Thread: Discussion thread: One on One: AMR and JCWR on the Temporality of God

  1. #16
    Your powers are weak, old man. Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    26,545
    Thanks
    199
    Thanked 1,217 Times in 646 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    951532
    Quote Originally Posted by godrulz View Post
    Keep his content, but correct his view to A vs B theory (A is dynamic/temporal; B is static/timeless).
    I hope this doesn't turn into a "Battle of the Network Labels".

    Theological terms bore me to tears. Lets just debate the concepts!
    Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
    TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

    Download the new TOL app for iPhone, iPad, and Android...


  2. #17
    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Taipei, Taiwan
    Posts
    14,977
    Thanks
    98
    Thanked 6,939 Times in 5,601 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147784
    Quote Originally Posted by godrulz View Post
    JCWR despises me, from what I can tell. I am surprised he is opposing AMR, another one who does not like me.


    When the guys who don't like you can only agree on one thing, i.e. that they don't like you, it's time to be worried ..
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.


  3. #18
    Member of the 10 year club on TOL!! CabinetMaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    On the back of a horse someplace in Colorado
    Posts
    4,249
    Thanks
    40
    Thanked 319 Times in 229 Posts

    Blog Entries
    4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    210784
    I have always viewed God as atemporal. God created time and He exists outside of our concept of time. The alternative is somewhat frightening. If God is limited by time, then time existed before God and limits God. It raises the question of who created time.

    It may just be a misunderstanding on my part that will be cleared up as the one-on-one progresses.

    Time will tell.
    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    What are my fruits today?

    Cityboy With Horses A blog about what happens when you say, "I Promise"

    "Moral standards" are a lot like lighthouses: they exist to help us stay on course as we sail through life. But we have to steer BY them, but not directly AT them. Lest we end up marooned on the shoals of perpetual self-righteousness.

  4. #19
    Your powers are weak, old man. Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    26,545
    Thanks
    199
    Thanked 1,217 Times in 646 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    951532
    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    If God is limited by time, then time existed before God and limits God. It raises the question of who created time.
    Why??

    Maybe time is merely the byproduct of a living, rational creator God. In other words... there is simply no reason to assume that time was created... after all, a time before time is irrational. Time exists because a rational, living God exists.
    Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
    TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

    Download the new TOL app for iPhone, iPad, and Android...


  5. #20
    Over 1500 post club This Charming Manc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Congleton, cheshire, england
    Posts
    1,529
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 56 Times in 43 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    202590
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    Why??

    Maybe time is merely the byproduct of a living, rational creator God. In other words... there is simply no reason to assume that time was created... after all, a time before time is irrational. Time exists because a rational, living God exists.
    Ok we maybe creating a side arguement here, but doesnt your line say that god either created by intention ( creation ) or created by proxy (byproduct), both suggest that God creates time.

  6. #21
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    9,273
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    11786
    Time is not a created thing nor is it a limitation on God. You have a traditional view, but it is not truth.
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

    "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

  7. #22
    Rookie JCWR's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Knightsbridge, U.K. - West of Central London
    Posts
    40
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    111
    Quote Originally Posted by godrulz View Post
    JCWR despises me, from what I can tell. I am surprised he is opposing AMR, another one who does not like me.

    I must say that I am cheering for JCWR, because I think he is right on track.

    The one issue for credibility, though, is that his view is actually the A-theory of time, the one Open Theists resonate with. He is defending the A-theory, but calling it the B-theory.

    Could someone tell him to look into that before AMR thinks he lacks credibility?

    Keep his content, but correct his view to A vs B theory (A is dynamic/temporal; B is static/timeless).
    I posted very late and was tired. I made the corrections. Sorry everyone.
    JCWR
    Romans 6:23; 8:1; 10:9; 10:13

  8. #23
    Member of the 10 year club on TOL!! CabinetMaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    On the back of a horse someplace in Colorado
    Posts
    4,249
    Thanks
    40
    Thanked 319 Times in 229 Posts

    Blog Entries
    4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    210784
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    Why??

    Maybe time is merely the byproduct of a living, rational creator God. In other words... there is simply no reason to assume that time was created... after all, a time before time is irrational. Time exists because a rational, living God exists.
    It seems logical that if God is omnipotent, then time would have to be under God's control. If it wasn't, then God would not be all powerful, there would exist one thing beyond His ability to control.

    And this may well be a meaningless side issue. We are limited by time. We live in the know with memories of yesterday and hopes for tomorrow. But we cannot go back to yesterday to change it nor even look into tomorrow to know what it holds. I may be guilty of emposing those imits on God. Still, it does not seem right that God would be limitied by time.

    I do believe that God knows the future but has not settled the future. I have always thought that time is like a table. Men live on that table and move through their lives limited as I noted above. God lives above that table and He can see all of our lives spread out before Him so He knows where we have been, where we are and where we are going. Again, it is a far from perfect analogy, but it has always helped me understand how God can the future without perdetermining it.
    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    What are my fruits today?

    Cityboy With Horses A blog about what happens when you say, "I Promise"

    "Moral standards" are a lot like lighthouses: they exist to help us stay on course as we sail through life. But we have to steer BY them, but not directly AT them. Lest we end up marooned on the shoals of perpetual self-righteousness.

  9. #24
    Your powers are weak, old man. Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    26,545
    Thanks
    199
    Thanked 1,217 Times in 646 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    951532
    Quote Originally Posted by This Charming Manc View Post
    Ok we maybe creating a side arguement here, but doesnt your line say that god either created by intention ( creation ) or created by proxy (byproduct), both suggest that God creates time.
    No.

    Time isn't a thing that needs to be created.

    Time is merely the notion that reality is sequential i.e., one event follows another event and so on.
    Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
    TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

    Download the new TOL app for iPhone, iPad, and Android...


  10. #25
    Your powers are weak, old man. Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    26,545
    Thanks
    199
    Thanked 1,217 Times in 646 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    951532
    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    [COLOR=DarkRed]It seems logical that if God is omnipotent, then time would have to be under God's control. If it wasn't, then God would not be all powerful, there would exist one thing beyond His ability to control.
    Let me ask you this....

    Do you think God created love? Or is love just a part of God's character?
    Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
    TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

    Download the new TOL app for iPhone, iPad, and Android...


  11. #26
    Your powers are weak, old man. Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    26,545
    Thanks
    199
    Thanked 1,217 Times in 646 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    951532
    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    I do believe that God knows the future but has not settled the future. I have always thought that time is like a table. Men live on that table and move through their lives limited as I noted above. God lives above that table and He can see all of our lives spread out before Him so He knows where we have been, where we are and where we are going. Again, it is a far from perfect analogy, but it has always helped me understand how God can the future without perdetermining it.
    If God can see the end of the table in advance and He knows what happens at the end of the table in every detail then the future is settled. Settled via God's ability to see the end of the table.
    Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
    TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

    Download the new TOL app for iPhone, iPad, and Android...


  12. #27
    Member of the 10 year club on TOL!! CabinetMaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    On the back of a horse someplace in Colorado
    Posts
    4,249
    Thanks
    40
    Thanked 319 Times in 229 Posts

    Blog Entries
    4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    210784
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    If God can see the end of the table in advance and He knows what happens at the end of the table in every detail then the future is settled. Settled via God's ability to see the end of the table.
    Parts of the future are settled. God has described to us the end of the table in Revelations. God has told us what He will do and He will do it. But that does not mean, at least to me, that God had to determine each and every action of each and every thing to get to the end of the table.
    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    What are my fruits today?

    Cityboy With Horses A blog about what happens when you say, "I Promise"

    "Moral standards" are a lot like lighthouses: they exist to help us stay on course as we sail through life. But we have to steer BY them, but not directly AT them. Lest we end up marooned on the shoals of perpetual self-righteousness.

  13. #28
    Member of the 10 year club on TOL!! CabinetMaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    On the back of a horse someplace in Colorado
    Posts
    4,249
    Thanks
    40
    Thanked 319 Times in 229 Posts

    Blog Entries
    4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    210784
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    Let me ask you this....

    Do you think God created love? Or is love just a part of God's character?
    Love is an integral part of God's nature. He expresses that love to His creation.
    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    What are my fruits today?

    Cityboy With Horses A blog about what happens when you say, "I Promise"

    "Moral standards" are a lot like lighthouses: they exist to help us stay on course as we sail through life. But we have to steer BY them, but not directly AT them. Lest we end up marooned on the shoals of perpetual self-righteousness.

  14. #29
    Your powers are weak, old man. Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    26,545
    Thanks
    199
    Thanked 1,217 Times in 646 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    951532
    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    Parts of the future are settled. God has described to us the end of the table in Revelations. God has told us what He will do and He will do it. But that does not mean, at least to me, that God had to determine each and every action of each and every thing to get to the end of the table.
    It's true that parts of the future are settled but that is because God has determined to bring certain events to pass.

    Do you think that the only way for God to get a desired outcome is to have seen the end of the table? Or is He powerful enough to bring an event to pass?
    Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
    TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

    Download the new TOL app for iPhone, iPad, and Android...


  15. #30
    Your powers are weak, old man. Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    26,545
    Thanks
    199
    Thanked 1,217 Times in 646 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    951532
    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    Love is an integral part of God's nature. He expresses that love to His creation.
    So..... what is your answer?

    Did God create love or not?
    Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
    TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

    Download the new TOL app for iPhone, iPad, and Android...


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us