Torah and are you Torah observant?

Nihilo

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Pluck out your right eye then, as the Master says, or do you not take that literally?
I take the whole thing very literally since that's the simplest and most honest way to take it.
Does he say it is not literal anywhere? You need to get busy with your right hand and foot too. And of course your enemies are your family members, those of your own household; you need to start hating your mother and father to follow your version of Messiah: "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple", (Luke 14:26). Don't be a hypocrite; get busy, get to chopping, hacking, hating, and killing. :chuckle:
Yeah? And? That's my position, I just read it and believe it.

"Kill."
 

Jacob

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And everything we say, or write.
We've discussed before how there are many moral laws taught by the Catholic Church, I don't know how many, I don't know if someone's already counted them to see how they compare to 613, but it seems like there are closer to 100-1000 than 10-100, but that's honestly more of a feel, and that's using the largest scale estimation method I know of, which is to try to narrow down an estimate to a range of orders of magnitude, an order of magnitude being multiplying by 10 or dividing by 10.1 So there is more than 1-10 moral teachings in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, because the Church bases all of her moral teachings on the 10 Commandments, so there are at least 10, and I know that there are many, many more than 10. So it feels like to me that there are either 10-100 moral commands, or between 100-1000. 613 is between 100-1000, so that would put the Church's teachings on morals in the same league as the Torah. And the Church does see all offenses against chastity under the command to not commit adultery, although also, lust, which is an offense against chastity, is also explained under the command to not covet.
:AMR: 100 years ago this was true.
Agreed on all counts.
Fornication is an offense against chastity and a grave one, deserving of death.
Whatever the Church teaches is a mortal sin; a grave moral offense, which is objective, committed such that the trespasser is justly determined fully guilty of the sin.
I don't know if the Church teaches against polygamy. I think she does, but I'm not sure. If she does teach against it, then it could be that polygamy is an offense against chastity, but I'm not certain, these are guesses.
The Church teaches precisely what the Lord Jesus teaches on the matter; remarriage after divorce is adultery, period, end of story. Those so living in adultery, are not permitted to eat and drink the Lord's body and blood. They are not formally excommunicated, but to my mind, this is excommunication. Do you know who else is not permitted to take communion in Catholic mass? Any non-Catholics, plus anybody who is Catholic, and who has committed a mortal sin, and not confessed and not done penance to reconcile with the Church. Formal excommunication is less common. Mostly, those forbidden to celebrate the Eucharist, the Lord's Supper, are Catholics in a state of mortal sin, including those who've remarried after divorce.
Yes, if that's what we are going to do, yes. Or, someone has to know anyway, if not us. We just have to know who it is, and then we'll just agree with what they teach, rather than rely upon our own understanding, of Scripture.
Not if from the Church. The Church is nothing but good news; all good news. There's nobody who thinks the Christian faith is bad news, in any way---the Christian faith is all good news, no bad news, no uneasy news or questionable news, it's all good, without exception. The Church says we can observe Yahweh's law with all joy, and if we don't experience the Maker's law with unlimited joy, then we're misunderstanding it and Him, and the explanation is found in the Church's teaching on faith, which I believe makes up the bulk of the Church's teaching overall.

We're all sinners, according to the Trinity's law, and there's never been a Church teaching that's said otherwise.

1 -
Spoiler
The only bigger one I've got, which I haven't perfected yet, is estimating in "orders" of trillions. Atoms and molecules are on the order of a trillion squared (trillion^2) smaller than human scale, and the largest things are on the order of a trillion squared larger, so the whole world looks like it could span 4-6 orders of a trillion, or a trillion^4 - trillion^6. A trillion is 12 orders of magnitude. A million is 6 orders of magnitude and a billion is 9 orders of magnitude. National debt is right now in the trillion^1 range, actually it's between trillion^1-trillion^2, and like I said, the largest things seem to be around trillion^2-trillion^3 as compared with us, and trillion^4-trillion^6 larger than the smallest things we know about.

1 trillion^1 = 1,000,000,000,000 (12 orders of magnitude)
1 trillion^2 = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (24 orders of magnitude)
1 trillion^4 = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (48 orders of magnitude)
1 trillion^6 = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (72 orders of magnitude)
1 googol = 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (100 orders of magnitude)

The entire universe is on the order of 1 trillion^4-trillion^6 larger than subatomic particles and gamma radiation and other Planck-scale-range things. For reference 1 trillion^2 atoms of iron is about 1/5 of a pound, a little over 3 ozs or 3/4 of 1/4 lb.

I think that the Catechism teaches 10-100, or 100-1000 moral commands.
Shalom.

I am a Jew. I do not know why you are talking about the Catholic Church, the Catholic Catechism, or Catholicism. My Grandfather committed adultery as I understand it.

In Matthew through Revelation there are 1050 commands.

I do not know what you mean by a moral command. The way I see it all of God's commands are moral. They all have to do with right and wrong, obedience or disobedience.

Shalom.

Jacob
 

daqq

Well-known member
I take the whole thing very literally since that's the simplest and most honest way to take it.
Yeah? And? That's my position, I just read it and believe it.

"Kill."

Going to let you have the last word on this, killer, because I see it now as a thread derail. :)
 

Nihilo

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Going to let you have the last word on this, killer, because I see it now as a thread derail. :)
Just so long as we're clear, that if you don't literally kill, then you're literally not Torah observant. :nono:
 

daqq

Well-known member
Just so long as we're clear, that if you don't literally kill, then you're not literally Torah observant. :nono:

Uh, no, depends on what you are killing: it is not about killing people but rather about cutting off "devils" and their doctrines, (within your own "house"). The Master expounds all these things in the Gospel accounts. Perhaps you ought to go relearn his teachings and stay away from Torah until you realize that is what he is expounding.
 

Nihilo

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Uh, no, depends on what you are killing: it is not about killing people but rather about cutting off "devils" and their doctrines, (within your own "house"). The Master expounds all these things in the Gospel accounts. Perhaps you ought to go relearn his teachings and stay away from Torah until you realize that is what he is expounding.
Perhaps instead, I listen to the Apostles, who deny ever teaching Gentiles to observe Torah (Ac15:24KJV), and say observing Torah cannot (Ro8:3KJV, Gal3:21KJV).

"O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?"

What does Torah teach about what to do with homosexual offenders?
 

Nihilo

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Shalom.

No. You are incorrect.

Shalom.

Jacob
Nope, that's true. God commands it. His Church teaches that the Maker commands it; it's a sin to not go to mass.

Listen to your rabbi, glean what you can yourself from studying Torah, but know that the Lord Jesus Christ's Church teaches authoritatively and infallibly on matters of morals, as well as on faith, and you can trust the Church's moral teachings, one of which is to go to Mass, is what the Lord Himself thinks.
 

Jacob

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Nope, that's true. God commands it. His Church teaches that the Maker commands it; it's a sin to not go to mass.

Listen to your rabbi, glean what you can yourself from studying Torah, but know that the Lord Jesus Christ's Church teaches authoritatively and infallibly on matters of morals, as well as on faith, and you can trust the Church's moral teachings, one of which is to go to Mass, is what the Lord Himself thinks.
Shalom.

No. To go to mass is a sin.

As a Jew I observe Passover, as Jesus (Yeshua) did.

Also, I will stay with Judaism and Jewish halakah.

Shalom.

Jacob
 

daqq

Well-known member
Perhaps instead, I listen to the Apostles, who deny ever teaching Gentiles to observe Torah (Ac15:24KJV), and say observing Torah cannot (Ro8:3KJV, Gal3:21KJV).

"O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?"

What does Torah teach about what to do with homosexual offenders?

You heard not a word I said. :)

it's a sin to not go to mass.

:rotfl:

That's right, you're a Pharisee, laying down the law . . .
What a pitiful joke someone has played on you.
 

Nihilo

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You heard not a word I said. :)



:rotfl:

That's right, you're a Pharisee, laying down the law . . .
What a pitiful joke someone has played on you.
Like I said, you don't observe Torah in any way, shape, or form.

Not that I care 'cause I don't, but don't kid yourself.
 

Jacob

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Then why did you say it is a sin to go to Mass? What is your reasoning?
Shalom.

Jesus was observing Passover with His disciples. It was not the creation of something new.

Also, Jesus died once and does not need to die again, if that helps you.

Shalom.

Jacob
 

Nihilo

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Jesus was observing Passover with His disciples. It was not the creation of something new.
"'This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.' 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnationh to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body."

The Apostles seem to have thought that He created something new Jacob.
 

Jacob

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"'This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.' 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnationh to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body."

The Apostles seem to have thought that He created something new Jacob.
Shalom.

No.

The new covenant is in Yeshua. It is recorded promised in the book of Jeremiah the prophet. See Chapter 31 Verses 31-34.


Jeremiah 31:31-34

Jesus (Yeshua) was observing Passover with His disciples.

Have you read the account in Luke?

Shalom.

Jacob
 

Nihilo

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Shalom.

No.

The new covenant is in Yeshua. It is recorded promised in the book of Jeremiah the prophet. See Chapter 31 Verses 31-34.

Jeremiah 31:31-34

Jesus (Yeshua) was observing Passover with His disciples.

Have you read the account in Luke?

Shalom.

Jacob
What do you mean "no?"

Paul wrote to Corinthian Gentiles who believed in the Lord Jesus, he wrote to them about the Eucharist, about partaking of the bread and the wine of communion.

Was Paul teaching the Gentiles in Corinth to observe Passover? Was that what he meant in the chapter 11 passage I quoted?

In Luke, the Lord says the same thing as Paul records Him saying in 1st Corinthians, and as Matthew and Mark record in their accounts, with very little variation. In all cases the Lord talks as if He wants what He's modeling to be repeated in the future. So did He change the observance of Passover? Or did He begin something new?

Do you think that the Lord Jesus is our Passover?
 

daqq

Well-known member
Like I said, you don't observe Torah in any way, shape, or form.

Not that I care 'cause I don't, but don't kid yourself.

The only reason you play judge at this point is to make yourself feel good about yourself and justify yourself because you have no clue what the Torah actually says or means. Let's be honest here: that is the only reason you are blowing up this thread, is it not? The unfortunate truth is that this is true because you really have no clue what the Messiah teaches either; for if you did, you would not judge someone else and especially not when it comes to Torah observance. It is personal and individual, what I do or do not do as far as my understanding of Torah is not your business unless I decide to share and explain something, especially when it comes to Torah observance; you have your own "house", and how you treat the "members" of your own "household" is between you and your Creator, (and He is their Avenger, for you are no more your own when you enter into the faith, just as Paul has forewarned you). Your ignorance has led you to engage yourself in buffoonery; and by playing judge concerning my observance, (especially when you do not know anything about me), you have now placed yourself under the law, and that is for the simple fact that you have brazenly ignored the commandments of the Master in the Gospel accounts where he tells you not to judge, lest you be judged, (not to mention what he says in Matthew 5:17,18,19).
 
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