Or you are making excuses for the editing done by the people who killed Jesus. Its obvious outside of the bias. Only God is perfect.
The Late Great Urantia Revelation
- Thread starter Caino
- Start date
- Status
Or you are making excuses for the editing done by the people who killed Jesus. Its obvious outside of the bias. Only God is perfect.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Editing would be natural as the texts had to be 'tailorized' so to speak to suit the needs of the religious community, at the times when the opportunity for such by the scribes was open for that to happen. Naturally then, there are contradictions of info. in various OT books concerning specific events, variant readings, etc. As I've maintained anyways,....a belief in 'inerrancy' or 'infallibility' of any religious text whatsoever is 'unnecessary'. Such a belief is not necessary to authenticate or appreciate any spiritual truth or wisdom that any given book might contain. - and even still, the INFINITE can NEVER be limited to or fully contained in a book. Revelation by nature in this realm of conditional space and time, is naturally PROGRESSIVE.
God's Truth
New member
Not all the Jews killed Jesus.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Freedom from ritual blood sacrifice and its proliferation of guilt............
Freedom from ritual blood sacrifice and its proliferation of guilt............
~*~*~
Just a note, I see that LA has closed the thread he made entitled "Atonement without blood according to Freelight' here - I was going to respond, but apparently he did not want me to CONTINUE to expound upon the fact and logic that there CERTAINLY is 'atonement' and 'forgiveness' of sins available without the necessity of having ANY bloodshed. This FACT is actually part of the goodnews.
:thumb:
Freedom from ritual blood sacrifice and its proliferation of guilt............
~*~*~
Just a note, I see that LA has closed the thread he made entitled "Atonement without blood according to Freelight' here - I was going to respond, but apparently he did not want me to CONTINUE to expound upon the fact and logic that there CERTAINLY is 'atonement' and 'forgiveness' of sins available without the necessity of having ANY bloodshed. This FACT is actually part of the goodnews.
:thumb:
God's Truth
New member
God says without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.
We are reconciled to God by the blood of Christ.
God said he forgives as we firgive others. Killing Jesus was wrong and the original gospel was largely lost to history.
God's Truth
New member
The Old Testament purification/ceremonial law was a teaching tool about how Jesus would die for us one day, and how his blood cleans us and reconciles us to God. It is about washing and it is about what is spiritual.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Cruelty free atonement........
Cruelty free atonement........
Wrong, read the thread with the evidence against this belief
- this is only written by the writer of Hebrews,.....the shedding of blood in the OT was not the only way sins were atoned for. The thread I linked here and all my commentary there covers this amply. Uri Yosef also does a good job in proving this NOTION wrong here :thumb:
We've already covered the whole blood-atonement concept-theory as well as the UB's teaching on it, with reference as well to the Eucharist here and elsewhere. The blood is symbolic of many things, but there are multiple ways to interpret such, and any one given 'interpretation' is not always a 'necessary' one.
Asides from any blood-letting, the one fundamental and essential WAY of return to God has always been genuine REPENTANCE, a returning to 'God' and the path of righteousness, making amends for one's wrongdoing and returning to 'right-doing'. This is the cry of John the Baptist and the later prophets, who often scolded and rebuked the temple system and her priests who engrossed in blood offerings but did not bear fruits worthy of repentance,....so that such offerings were a stench in God's nostrils! Physical blood anyways has no power in and of itself to EFFECT an 'atonement' or a change in conscience or inner transformation. This is why repentance is the essential, while any other religious ritual you use to compliment your repentance is fine, but it CANNOT REPLACE genuine repentance, the change of life and return to righteousness.
Cruelty free atonement........
Wrong, read the thread with the evidence against this belief
- this is only written by the writer of Hebrews,.....the shedding of blood in the OT was not the only way sins were atoned for. The thread I linked here and all my commentary there covers this amply. Uri Yosef also does a good job in proving this NOTION wrong here :thumb:We've already covered the whole blood-atonement concept-theory as well as the UB's teaching on it, with reference as well to the Eucharist here and elsewhere. The blood is symbolic of many things, but there are multiple ways to interpret such, and any one given 'interpretation' is not always a 'necessary' one.
Asides from any blood-letting, the one fundamental and essential WAY of return to God has always been genuine REPENTANCE, a returning to 'God' and the path of righteousness, making amends for one's wrongdoing and returning to 'right-doing'. This is the cry of John the Baptist and the later prophets, who often scolded and rebuked the temple system and her priests who engrossed in blood offerings but did not bear fruits worthy of repentance,....so that such offerings were a stench in God's nostrils! Physical blood anyways has no power in and of itself to EFFECT an 'atonement' or a change in conscience or inner transformation. This is why repentance is the essential, while any other religious ritual you use to compliment your repentance is fine, but it CANNOT REPLACE genuine repentance, the change of life and return to righteousness.
God's Truth
New member
Wrong, read the thread with the evidence against this belief
We've already covered the whole blood-atonement concept-theory as well as the UB's teaching on it, with reference as well to the Eucharist here and elsewhere. The blood is symbolic of many things, but there are multiple ways to interpret such, and any one given 'interpretation' is not always a 'necessary' one.
Asides from any blood-letting, the one fundamental and essential WAY of return to God has always been genuine REPENTANCE, a returning to 'God' and the path of righteousness, making amends for one's wrongdoing and returning to 'right-doing'. This is the cry of John the Baptist and the later prophets, who often scolded and rebuked the temple system and her priests who engrossed in blood offerings but did not bear fruits worthy of repentance,....so that such offerings were a stench in God's nostrils! Physical blood anyways has no power in and of itself to EFFECT an 'atonement' or a change in conscience or inner transformation. This is why repentance is the essential, while any other religious ritual you use to compliment your repentance is fine, but it CANNOT REPLACE genuine repentance, the change of life and return to righteousness.
Even after someone REPENTED of their sins in the Old Testament times---they STILL had to obey the purification/ceremonial works.
As for God not liking their sacrifices, it is because they would sin, give a sin offering, but not really be sorry for their sins!
That's post cross speculation on a savage, fallen world that thinks killing the Son of God as a sacrifice pleases God. God was already forgiving of his children, rejecting his Son's gospel wasn't necessary.
God's Truth
New member
God came as a Man in the flesh to die for our sins.
There is no Greater Love than Jesus.
John 15:13 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 14You are My friends if you do what I command you.
Lon
Well-known member
Because you don't recognize your heart as detestable and desperately wicked. Of course you don't need the Lord Jesus Christ: You nor Caino. Of course you don't. It is sad. You are exactly right. The Lord Jesus came for the sick, not the 'well.' You WILL get exactly what you desire: A life without the Lord Jesus Christ. Congratulations.
God's Truth
New member
Because you don't recognize your heart as detestable and desperately wicked. Of course you don't need the Lord Jesus Christ: You nor Caino. Of course you don't. It is sad. You are exactly right. The Lord Jesus came for the sick, not the 'well.' You WILL get exactly what you desire: A life without the Lord Jesus Christ. Congratulations.
Lon, you were taught wrong about about the heart.
I implore you to consider carefully. That scripture is about how the heart can be desperately wicked above all things. That does not mean everyone's heart is desperately wicked. It means that out of all the things in the world, the human heart of one wicked, is wicked above all things.
Lon
Well-known member
Then you have no need for a Savior either? Mark 2:17 Luke 5:31,32 Matthew 9:12,13
What do you have to offer these two gentlemen if not the need for the Lord Jesus Christ? Why would you argue with me, against their need for a Savior? Are you a fool? Hate the Lord Jesus Christ? His message? Why in the wide-world did you come into this thread and tell two unsaved individuals that they are 'fine' and do not need the Lord Jesus Christ? ??? Why? Why did you feel compelled to step in the way between them and Him?
God's Truth
New member
Of course we all need a Savior, but it doesn’t mean all are so wicked.
All are sinners, but not all admit it. We have to admit we have sinned and fall SHORT. It does not mean all are totally and utterly depraved.
They know better than you when it comes to calling all humans desperately wicked. Even though you tell untruths about me, I still want to help you.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
One with Deity
One with Deity
Your belief in 'total depravity' obscures and disfigures the original goodness and divine image in man, to say nothing of that divine spirit indwelling the soul, the 'thought adjuster'.
The Lord Jesus, our Creator Son....is very much in relationship with his children by the very fact of existence, although relationships grow and evolve to unfold their true potential and possibilities which is what life is about. The Urantia Book is a manifold narrative of the soul's journey in the love and light of God, so does not agree with your distorted purview of his infinite and unlimited grace.
A life with the Creator Son, Christ-Michael, and the Universal Father is what the UB is all about, so your ignorance of its teachings are apparent. The path of eternal progression and ascension in Spirit is the way of love and service as the kingdom is within. This universal truth is at the heart of all true teachings. The infinite cannot be limited, prescribed or diminished by any one exclusive dogmatic formula assuming it is absolute, since truth-perception in this realm of space and time is relative.
The infinite I AM is the universal and absolute reality of being and identity, and abides in each individual soul as the indwelling 'spirit' of the infinite, the ' spirit-monitor', 'Father-fragmment', 'thought-adjuster'....The very pre-personal presence of Deity itself. This essence of being is the heart of the real 'self' which the evolving personality will fuse with, thus putting on immortality. This is the true mystical wedding of the soul with Deity, where the two become one
Such a theology surely includes the Lord Jesus who reveals the way, truth and life of God in man....and as man.
One with Deity
Because you don't recognize your heart as detestable and desperately wicked. Of course you don't need the Lord Jesus Christ: You nor Caino. Of course you don't. It is sad. You are exactly right. The Lord Jesus came for the sick, not the 'well.' You WILL get exactly what you desire: A life without the Lord Jesus Christ. Congratulations.
Your belief in 'total depravity' obscures and disfigures the original goodness and divine image in man, to say nothing of that divine spirit indwelling the soul, the 'thought adjuster'.
The Lord Jesus, our Creator Son....is very much in relationship with his children by the very fact of existence, although relationships grow and evolve to unfold their true potential and possibilities which is what life is about. The Urantia Book is a manifold narrative of the soul's journey in the love and light of God, so does not agree with your distorted purview of his infinite and unlimited grace.
A life with the Creator Son, Christ-Michael, and the Universal Father is what the UB is all about, so your ignorance of its teachings are apparent. The path of eternal progression and ascension in Spirit is the way of love and service as the kingdom is within. This universal truth is at the heart of all true teachings. The infinite cannot be limited, prescribed or diminished by any one exclusive dogmatic formula assuming it is absolute, since truth-perception in this realm of space and time is relative.
The infinite I AM is the universal and absolute reality of being and identity, and abides in each individual soul as the indwelling 'spirit' of the infinite, the ' spirit-monitor', 'Father-fragmment', 'thought-adjuster'....The very pre-personal presence of Deity itself. This essence of being is the heart of the real 'self' which the evolving personality will fuse with, thus putting on immortality. This is the true mystical wedding of the soul with Deity, where the two become one
Such a theology surely includes the Lord Jesus who reveals the way, truth and life of God in man....and as man.
Lon
Well-known member
You are absurd. "If" it were true, this is one deity speaking life to another. One of us right, the other not. You, being your own deity, can't and won't take correction. You are EXACTLY where your nature has you. You might have as well stayed a Mormon, being your own god. You traded for a 'better you' and that one still not sick enough to need a Savior. More is the pity. Your 'god' verses my 'god' (self) is self-defeating, thus you lose again. One day logic might take place over emoting into the shallow pond you believe is infinity.
It is brain-dead counter-intuitive postulation. As long as you want to live by it, by all means, "heal thyself." I'll be seeking a MUCH higher power, well-beyond your or my juvenile puerile attempts. -Lon
Lon
Well-known member
There you go. You just offered them nothing and condemned them to life without a Savior or need for one. Nice going. Take 'Christian' out of your name. Thanks for nothing GT. You don't even believe the Bible. Their only hope is/was/ever will be the Lord Jesus Christ. Way to obfuscate Him and our need for Him in front of them. :applaud: And all heaven cries.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Eternal infinite Life is ever living and conscious. We as individual expressions of consciousness are more or less conditioned. All points of view in space and time are relative to the viewer
The higher power is no higher than you've assumed it to be, since the spirit of 'God' is here omnipresently. Consider what is truly infinite. You cannot contain, prescribe or monopolize infinity
Lon
Well-known member
Your 'brokeness' is embraced as if it is 'all there is' and you call that infinite.Eternal infinite Life is ever living and conscious. We as individual expressions of consciousness are more or less conditioned. All points of view in space and time are relative to the viewer
The higher power is no higher than you've assumed it to be, since the spirit of 'God' is here omnipresently. Consider what is truly infinite. You cannot contain, prescribe or monopolize infinity
I know, per fact, you are broken and in need of a Savior. I didn't lie to myself that day. You are the worst of liars: You believe your lies. - Status