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Thread: Where did God come from?

  1. #91
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    Before the beginning, there was no creation. No space, no heavens, no stars, no earth, no measurment (nothing to measure), no time and nothing but The Eternal God. He began by creating the heavens and the earth. That includes the vastness of space itself. It also includes all measurement, including time. Only God and His Purposes are from eternity. He doesn't change. He is Ancient of Days because He made days. He set the stars to mark time and seasons for us. He lives in eternity and can interface with temporal beings at His will. He isn't subject to time, or time would be God and not The Lord.
    "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7

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    Over 5000 post club Letsargue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    Before the beginning, there was no creation. No space, no heavens, no stars, no earth, no measurment (nothing to measure), no time and nothing but The Eternal God. He began by creating the heavens and the earth. That includes the vastness of space itself. It also includes all measurement, including time. Only God and His Purposes are from eternity. He doesn't change. He is Ancient of Days because He made days. He set the stars to mark time and seasons for us. He lives in eternity and can interface with temporal beings at His will. He isn't subject to time, or time would be God and not The Lord.


    I guess I’d have to go along with most of that, as a general overview of God and his doings. However, there are details to everything that are not in symbolic terms or parables. All Parables are not the true events that were or now are. God gave us the “TRUTH”, and things that are true. There’s a difference between the “Truth” and something that is VERILY TRUE. All Scriptures are TRUTH, but not necessarily TRUE. There is not verily a Holy City that has streets of Gold and pearly gates. That is a Parable of something that does truly exist. That God has not identified in any way shape or form. – 1 Corinthians 2:9 KJV – “As it is written, Eye hath not seen , NOR EAR HEARD, NEITHER HAVE ENTERED INTO THE HEART OF MAN, the things which God hath “PREPARED” for them that love him”.
    Jesus went to “prepare” a place, but NEVER DESCRIBED IT truly, except in parable of the Holy City, New Jerusalem, / the Church.

    Sorry, but when you say “HE” “Created the Heavens and”: It was the Word that was with God that did the creating, not the Word that was by it’s self. There was only the Word that was WITH God in the beginning. And that Word that was with God, created the one Heaven in the beginning; the same Heaven that passed away in the end. – Luke 21:33 KJV – “HEAVEN and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away”. Just one heaven passes, the same that was created.
    Maybe I’m too picky, but that’s what God said by his Word.
    Peace.

    Paul – 100709
    ---Gal. 4:16.
    ---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Letsargue View Post
    There’s a difference between the “Truth” and something that is VERILY TRUE. All Scriptures are TRUTH, but not necessarily TRUE. There is not verily a Holy City that has streets of Gold and pearly gates. That is a Parable of something that does truly exist.
    That's your opinion, and you're welcome to believe that, if you want, but Scripture shows us otherwise. John was describing Heaven, and got to view these things by having The Spirit of The Lord reveal them to him. You don't have to believe him, but he did describe what he saw, and Heaven is very real, whether you believe that It is or not.
    That God has not identified in any way shape or form. – 1 Corinthians 2:9 KJV – “As it is written, Eye hath not seen , NOR EAR HEARD, NEITHER HAVE ENTERED INTO THE HEART OF MAN, the things which God hath “PREPARED” for them that love him”.
    Actually, He has... He reveals them to us by His Spirit. You left off verse 10 in your quote:

    I Corinthians
    9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
    10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

    God reveals things to us by His Spirit, and if you don't receive those revelations, you don't believe in God. Without receiving revelation from God's Spirit, no one would know that Jesus is The Christ.
    "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7

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    Journeyman Yazichestvo's Avatar
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    Aimiel does well to mention the beginning from scripture, decribing that there was no time. Does something existing outside of time require a cause? Causality is the function of things existing within time.

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    why is water wet?
    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    why is water wet?
    Something to do with software?
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

    "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

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    Had time previously existed, I'm sure God would have given the year that He started creation. Since He started time with creation, He said: "In the beginning..."
    "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    Had time previously existed, I'm sure God would have given the year that He started creation. Since He started time with creation, He said: "In the beginning..."
    The beginning is a relative reference point to the beginning of our history. It does not preclude divine duration before and after this point (Psalm 90:2 He is from everlasting to everlasting, endless time, with no hint of philosophical, incoherent timelessness).

    <- numbers.....0/the beginning of our measure of time, not time itself.....+ numbers> (presentism vs eternalism; time is not a created thing, but a concept, a measure of endless duration/succession/sequence).
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

    "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

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    I agree, somewhat. I see creation as the beginning of creation, not a portion of it. God didn't create time and space, and then move into it. He is eternal. He is Spirit. What that is, in comparison to us, we don't know or understand, in the least. He exists, but He isn't subject to time at all. This temporal realm was created and time began when God fired this thing up and started it moving.
    "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7

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    The unique measure of time (sun, moon, stars) had a beginning, but duration/time existed within God's triune relations from eternity. Our history began in Gen. 1, but God's history (requiring duration) is from everlasting to everlasting (not timeless).
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

    "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

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    God is eternal, not some really old guy. He isn't subject to time, and doesn't count His days.
    "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    God is eternal, not some really old guy. He isn't subject to time, and doesn't count His days.
    Eternal is everlasting duration, not timelessness. Has God existed during the duration of earth/mankind history? Yes. Does creation precede Fall/Flood and first then second coming? Can Jesus rise from the dead before He is born? Is sequence a limitation on God (NO) or is it an aspect of His everlasting reality? God does not age like humans, but that does not mean He does not think, act, feel (personal) in succession (time). Ps. 90:2; Rev. 1:8; Ps. 102:27 (it does not say he does not have years, but that they are without end). There is time in eternity in Revelation, so heaven/God/eternity does not have to mean timelessness (philosophical, incoherent concept).
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

    "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by godrulz View Post
    Eternal is everlasting duration, not timelessness.
    Yes, that's what you've been taught. You have swallowed that hook, line and sinker. I don't and I won't; no matter how many times you repeat it. You've said it so many times that it has become completely meaningless. Please grow up.
    Has God existed during the duration of earth/mankind history?
    God isn't effected by time, being its Creator.
    Does creation precede Fall/Flood and first then second coming?
    The things which The Lamb, slain from the foundation of the earth, does, in our sight in this temporal realm do not give us a complete picture or understanding of God.
    Can Jesus rise from the dead before He is born?
    If He chooses to, He can do anything.
    Is sequence a limitation on God (NO) or is it an aspect of His everlasting reality?
    As I said, God isn't hampered by anything, including time.
    God does not age like humans, but that does not mean He does not think, act, feel (personal) in succession (time).
    His relation to us of His Character by means of parables to give us perceptions of Him in keeping with our own reality don't give us full information on Him or put Him in a box (as you're trying to do).
    There is time in eternity in Revelation, so heaven/God/eternity does not have to mean timelessness (philosophical, incoherent concept).
    It is only incoherent if you are limited to thinking in a temporal realm with a temporal brain along temporal lines. God isn't limited in ANY way.
    "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7

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    Your response seems to be that God cannot reveal basic things about His reality and that we should reject the face value revelation if it contradicts your preconceived view I reject timelessness based on history, logic, Scripture, not because I read it in a book and threw my brain out the window. One view is defensible/coherent and the other is not. Just because you are not aware of or do not understand the issues does not mean there is not evidence for and against views.

    Saying that God can do anything is not believed by atheists nor theists. We can all think of many things an omnipotent God cannot do, so that is not an argument. You say He can make Jesus rise from the dead before He incarnates or make His Second Coming precede His first coming. Few would agree with you. It is moot since He has revealed chronology/sequence in His experiences and divine life. So, the evidence shows divine temporality, not timelessness. There is a before and after creation, even for God. In no way is this a limitation (you wrongly reject the view because you think it limits God; it does not limit a personal, infinite being to think, feel, act in succesion/duration/time). The fact that the God-Man can experience duration shows that one does not have to be timeless to be of the nature of God. Jesus did not cease to be God when He became a man. There was a before and after incarnation for the eternal Word, so endless duration is defensible (Ps. 90:2; Ps. 102:27; Rev. 1:8 tensed expressions about God...you seem to think that God is not revealing truth in these statements...in fact, He is, but it contradicts your assumptions; your view is traced to pagan philosophy and reasoning, not to any biblical or logical evidence).

    I doubt you have wrestled with the possible views held by Christians. I agree with Wolterstorff (IVP is a credible publisher):

    http://www.amazon.com/God-Time-Grego.../dp/0830815511

    (look inside for contents)

    Our view on this subject is not heaven-hell, but it does have significant, practical implications for our understanding of God and our relationship with Him.
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

    "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

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    "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7

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