ECT According to Paul he was not the only one that preached the MYSTERY.

Interplanner

Well-known member
Lighthouse wrote:
And that proves what?


It won't do any good to be obnoxious. The expression Lamb of God / taking away sin obviously had a clear meaning, then and there. It was not irrational. It was the fulfillment of Judaism in a living person. Otherwise the whole NT is meaningless religious drivel and we are dead in our sins.
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
It won't do any good to be obnoxious. The expression Lamb of God / taking away sin obviously had a clear meaning, then and there. It was not irrational. It was the fulfillment of Judaism in a living person. Otherwise the whole NT is meaningless religious drivel and we are dead in our sins.
OK, then, what was that meaning? What did it mean to those to whom John spoke it?
 

God's Truth

New member
Lighthouse wrote:
And that proves what?


It won't do any good to be obnoxious. The expression Lamb of God / taking away sin obviously had a clear meaning, then and there. It was not irrational. It was the fulfillment of Judaism in a living person. Otherwise the whole NT is meaningless religious drivel and we are dead in our sins.

Exactly.
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
[MENTION=14521]God's Truth[/MENTION]
attachment.php
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Lighthouse wrote:
And that proves what?


It won't do any good to be obnoxious. The expression Lamb of God / taking away sin obviously had a clear meaning, then and there. It was not irrational. It was the fulfillment of Judaism in a living person. Otherwise the whole NT is meaningless religious drivel and we are dead in our sins.

:chuckle:
 

Ac28

New member
Ephesians 3 is "but now" mystery truth:

"mystery"

"Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men"

"as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit"

"unsearchable"

"hid in God"

It is the mystery pertaining to Gentiles (Ephesians 3:6 KJV)/the mystery of the gospel (Ephesians 6:19 KJV) who earlier (in time past) were without hope and without God in the world (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV) who Paul was made a prisoner of Jesus Christ for and to whom Paul was given the dispensation of the grace of God to (directional "to you-ward" Ephesians 3:1-2 KJV). That it is "now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit" is set in contrast to the earlier mystery (the mystery of Christ) which was a mystery hidden in the scriptures "according to the scriptures" of Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, but thanks for your concern.
We of the Acts 28:28 persuasion couldn't have said it better.
 

lifeisgood

New member
Hi Lifeisgood.


I'm sorry, but I am not familiar with the term ‘the double’ or ‘possessing the double’ .

At first I thought you may be speaking of the kinsman redeemer; but there is no sacrifice involved with that.

Could you point where in the law that particular practice you speak of is established?

Thanks.

I am sorry it has taken me so long to answer, haven't been myself in a long while. Better now.

I do not think I meant it was a 'law', but, can't prove now for it has been so long. It is called 'orientalisms', which I would take it to be a custom.

====

In Bible times, if a man is indebted and unable to pay his creditors, he appears before the elders sitting at the gate of the city. These elected ones consider cases brought before them and decide the appropriate actions of judgment. The elders are considered the people’s court of the spiritual body. The chairman of the elders depends on God for leadership so the right decision can be rendered.

The indebted person has both a legal and moral obligation to see that his debts are fully paid. The man’s name with the list of his debtors and amounts owed is put on the gate for all to see until the debt is paid. Then everyone in the town knows the situation and that he has been dishonorable. Rejected and insulted by the citizenry, he cannot even find work.

Perhaps the debt notice is seen by a relative, friend or benefactor who agrees to pay fully the amount owed. Once payments are totally fulfilled, the elders at the gate fold the notice, glue it together, and in that manner double it: the debt is paid. Then the elder writes the debtor’s name on the outside and there is then no more condemnation. Rather than meaning twice as much, double for sin means the man has been redeemed from debt.

In like manner, Jesus Christ blotted the handwriting of ordinances that was against us (Colossians 2:14). He was the benefactor that paid it all for us on the cross.


Orientalisms of the Bible Volume I by Bishop K. C. Pillai, D.D., American Christian Press, 1986, 3rd printing 1998, pp. 127-132.

Old and New Testament Orientalisms Teachings of Bishop K. C. Pillai transcript, Isaiah 40:1, 2, pp. 236-238. (http://www.biblecustoms.org/bishop-kc-pillai/orientalisms/isaiah-40-1-2-double-for-sin)
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Eph 3:5
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Notice Paul did not reveal the mystery to the Apostles and Prophets the mystery was revealed to them by the SPIRIT.

How did those who follow and believe MAD miss this ?




MAD is totally made-up. Scantest support of any 'system' out there.
 

Danoh

New member
Eph 3:5
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Notice Paul did not reveal the mystery to the Apostles and Prophets the mystery was revealed to them by the SPIRIT.

How did those who follow and believe MAD miss this ?

Revealed by the Spirit can mean...

1- revealed by the Spirit directly to one or another of the individuals in Scripture.

Luke 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

2- or by the Spirit speaking to others through one of said individuals...

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

3- or by the Spirit through Scripture for others to read about...

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

That passage in Ephesians 3:5's - Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Galatians

2:1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

He went up by revelation?

The Lord did tell him He would be appearing unto him, from time to time.

Acts 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

So why was he sent up to Jerusalem in Galatians 2?

To communicate unto them which were of reputation that gospel that he preached among the Gentiles.

Why privately to them which were of reputation?

So as not to waste his time with the following trouble makers, once more.

2:3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: 2:5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

What happened when he and those who were of reputation met?

2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person: ) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles: )

Who were those of reputation whom he had been sent up by revelation to lay out unto them that gospel which he preached among the Gentiles?

And who did they get said revelation about that from?

Paul just said it was revealed unto them by him.

Result?

2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

That there was by the Spirit through Paul.

This here was by the Spirit through Paul's writings...

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The Spirit revealed it unto them through Paul, but in person, amd through his writings.

Peter and compsny received their information about the Lord's delay of His wrath and return unto Israel, and what He was doing til then - they recieved that information by the Spirit speaking through Paul.

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Prior to Paul, all they had been told had been...

Acts 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
 

dodge

New member
Revealed by the Spirit can mean...

1- revealed by the Spirit directly to one or another of the individuals in Scripture.

Luke 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

2- or by the Spirit speaking to others through one of said individuals...

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

3- or by the Spirit through Scripture for others to read about...

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

That passage in Ephesians 3:5's - Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Galatians

2:1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

He went up by revelation?

The Lord did tell him He would be appearing unto him, from time to time.

Acts 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

So why was he sent up to Jerusalem in Galatians 2?

To communicate unto them which were of reputation that gospel that he preached among the Gentiles.

Why privately to them which were of reputation?

So as not to waste his time with the following trouble makers, once more.

2:3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: 2:5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

What happened when he and those who were of reputation met?

2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person: ) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles: )

Who were those of reputation whom he had been sent up by revelation to lay out unto them that gospel which he preached among the Gentiles?

And who did they get said revelation about that from?

Paul just said it was revealed unto them by him.

Result?

2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

That there was by the Spirit through Paul.

This here was by the Spirit through Paul's writings...

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The Spirit revealed it unto them through Paul, but in person, amd through his writings.

Peter and compsny received their information about the Lord's delay of His wrath and return unto Israel, and what He was doing til then - they recieved that information by the Spirit speaking through Paul.

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Prior to Paul, all they had been told had been...

Acts 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Danoh ,that is a lot of dancing to get out of the context of the verse I quoted !

Eph 3:5
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;


See the "now revealed" unto his Holy apostles and prophets and "by the Spirit".
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Danoh ,that is a lot of dancing to get out of the context of the verse I quoted !

Eph 3:5
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;


See the "now revealed" unto his Holy apostles and prophets and "by the Spirit".



His and Eph 3:5 means this :

#1 , The verb MADE KNOWN / GNOIZO is in the Aorist Tense which points back to Paul given the MYSTERY in Rom 16:25 and 26 !!

#2 , The second verb is also in the AROIST TENSE which also points back to Paul given the dispensation of the Grace of God in Acts 20:24 !!

If you read Eph 4:11 and there were Apostles and Prophets , all through the bible !!

Apostles are just messangers today !

Prophets are speaking forth a Devine message !!

dan p
 

Danoh

New member
Danoh ,that is a lot of dancing to get out of the context of the verse I quoted !

Eph 3:5
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;


See the "now revealed" unto his Holy apostles and prophets and "by the Spirit".

You might call it dancing around if that is what you think I was doing.

And that is your perogative.

It is obvious in the above that the Lord revealed some things through Paul to James, Peter, and John concerning Paul's work among the Gentiles and as a result, the Lord's delay in His return until some point after the fulness of said work.

And there is another aspect of this.

When did the Lord call the Twelve Apostles? Before, or after His death, burial, resurrection, and ascension?

Per Matt. 10, it was some three years or so before the Cross.

And when did He call Paul and his fellow laborers?

After He ascended up on High and then descended to appear unto Paul, Acts 9; Eph. 1; Eph. 4.

Ephesians 3 is also a reference to those Paul mentions in Eph. 4.

The household of God being comprised of two agencies: Believing Israelites ON Earth, and formerly lost Jews and Gentiles in A New Creature IN Heaven, this side of Unbelieving Israel's fall and temporary setting aside, Eph. 3:15, Rom. 11.

This is not about alot of dancing, as you put it.

Rather about where we are each approaching things from.

Thus, round and round we will go to no end.

Because our approach differs.

Personally, bro, I don't need you to come over to my side of the fence.

That is on you, whenever you come to a place where you are fully persuaded in your own mind to do so.

So, no...I have no need to dance around.

I don't think that is what you are doing.

Rather, you are where you are at this point in your understanding, and look at things from where you do, and likewise on my end.

If this too is dancing on my part from your perspective, then so be it.

We will both find out one day who lost what reward.

I'm fine with that. I was merely relating my understanding.

The best toward you all the same, bro :)
 
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