Are Calvinist, Catholics Christians?

Bard_the_Bowman · Apr 12, 2017

Robert Pate said:
Salvation is by faith alone because it is by Christ alone.

Is that a Bible verse? Where can I find that please?

Jesus Christ is the one that fulfilled God's Holy Law. Jesus Christ is the one that atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world. It was the doing and the dying of Jesus that reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Not the Catholic church.

Did the Catholic Church claim to fulfill God's Holy Law? Where and when?
Did the Catholic Church claim to atone for the sins of the whole world? Where and When?
Did the Catholic Church claim anything of the sort that you mention above? Where and When?

You are a Straw Man Expert, Robert.

And your straw men mean nothing.

Peace.

Robert Pate · Apr 12, 2017

Bard_the_Bowman said:
Is that a Bible verse? Where can I find that please?

Did the Catholic Church claim to fulfill God's Holy Law? Where and when?
Did the Catholic Church claim to atone for the sins of the whole world? Where and When?
Did the Catholic Church claim anything of the sort that you mention above? Where and When?

You are a Straw Man Expert, Robert.

And your straw men mean nothing.

Peace.

Catholicism is your Jesus. You love your religion more than you love Christ. By the way, please remove Jesus from the cross. He is no longer on the cross. He now sits at the right hand of God as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

Robert Pate · Apr 12, 2017

meshak said:
According to trinity believers, yes they are because they believe in the trinity.

Believing that there is, or is not a trinity, does not make one a Christian.

Robert Pate · Apr 12, 2017

Bard_the_Bowman said:
Except for one detail...

You do not know what you are talking about.

You display your ignorance of other's beliefs every time you try to post something about them.

I wish that weren't so...but it is.

Catholics believe that they can participate in their salvation. Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves. God is not the minister of sin.

Robert Pate · Apr 12, 2017

Bard_the_Bowman said:
According to the Bible, what qualifies as "evidence of the Holy Spirit" in teachings? Does the Bible tell us?

Or are you just making stuff up again?

Participate like Paul said to, you mean?

" Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Phillippians 2:12)

Huh.....it looks like Paul disagrees with Robert.

Do you just ignore that verse when you read the Bible or what?

Peace.

When Paul said, "Work out your salvation" he meant to work it out in your mind. Sinners have nothing to offer God that will save them.

Robert Pate · Apr 12, 2017

Bard_the_Bowman said:
Dang, Robert.

Even though you go to great lengths to create your own made-up definitions of terms and then hold everyone else's belief systems to your homemade jargon.....you still manage to contradict the Bible.

There is nothing in the Old Testament or New Testament about any religion you say?

Well,the Bible disagrees with you and says....

James 1:27: "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

You should be more careful.

Also, remember we've been over all of this before?

If your definition of religion is something like : "man's preoccupation with himself"...well, Calvinists don't qualify, Catholics don't qualify, Methodists don't qualify, Lutherans don't qualify, non-denom's don't qualify, etc.

All of those groups (and more) are too preoccupied with Jesus to be preoccupied with themselves.

What you assert simply does not square with reality.

But that is nothing new.

Peace.

Nope, nothing in the Bible that resembles Catholicism, except for the religion of the Pharisees.

Bard_the_Bowman · Apr 13, 2017

Robert Pate said:
Catholicism is your Jesus. You love your religion more than you love Christ. By the way, please remove Jesus from the cross. He is no longer on the cross. He now sits at the right hand of God as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

You know what Robert? Never mind.

It is next to impossible to have a conversation with you because you only "talk". You don't "listen".

I asked you several direct questions and you ignored them all.

I must conclude, yet again (sigh), that you DO NOT answer direct questions because you CAN NOT answer them.

But that is to be expected because your posts are basically nothing more than your own made-up pontifications of your own made-up religion.

I do wish you peace at any rate.

Bard_the_Bowman · Apr 13, 2017

Robert Pate said:
Catholics believe that they can participate in their salvation. Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves. God is not the minister of sin.

Poor Saint Paul was very, very confused then.

He probably wasn't even a Christian according to your way of thinking.

Philippians 2:12: "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

Saint Paul sure makes that sound like participating or cooperating with God.

Romans 11:14: "If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them."

1 Corinthians 9:22: "To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."

Poor confused Paul. He thought he could "save some".

Didn't he know sinners can't save sinners?

But then, those words are written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit so maybe, just maybe...Robert is wrong.

Peace.

Bard_the_Bowman · Apr 13, 2017

Robert Pate said:
When Paul said, "Work out your salvation" he meant to work it out in your mind. Sinners have nothing to offer God that will save them.

Let's see about that.

Got a Bible verse to back that up with? "Work it out in your mind?"

Don't bother looking....we both know you made that up.

I wonder if he isn't talking about something a bit more biblical like:

1. a lifetime journey of keeping the faith like he writes about in 2 Timothy 4:7-8,
2. following the commandments as Jesus said in Matthew 19:17,
3. persevering in doing good works as he writes about in Romans 2:7,
4. trying for holiness as found in Hebrews 12:14,
5. praying continually as he writes in 1 Thessalonians 5:17
etc.

Bard_the_Bowman · Apr 13, 2017

Robert Pate said:
Nope, nothing in the Bible that resembles Catholicism, except for the religion of the Pharisees.

Pretty clear that your claim...

Robert Pate said:
There is nothing in the Old Testament or the New Testament about Calvinism, Catholicism, or any religion.

...is simply wrong.

So there is no reason to believe other claims that you make (about Calvinism, Catholicism, religion, or even the Bible) are not equally wrong.

Do you just ignore James 1:27 too?

Robert Pate · Apr 13, 2017

Bard_the_Bowman said:
Pretty clear that your claim...

...is simply wrong.

So there is no reason to believe other claims that you make (about Calvinism, Catholicism, religion, or even the Bible) are not equally wrong.

Do you just ignore James 1:27 too?

James was a Judaizer. A Judaizer is one that believes in Jesus but also believes that you must keep the law of Moses, Acts 15:21.

Robert Pate · Apr 13, 2017

Bard_the_Bowman said:
Let's see about that.

Got a Bible verse to back that up with? "Work it out in your mind?"

Don't bother looking....we both know you made that up.

I wonder if he isn't talking about something a bit more biblical like:

1. a lifetime journey of keeping the faith like he writes about in 2 Timothy 4:7-8,
2. following the commandments as Jesus said in Matthew 19:17,
3. persevering in doing good works as he writes about in Romans 2:7,
4. trying for holiness as found in Hebrews 12:14,
5. praying continually as he writes in 1 Thessalonians 5:17
etc.

Paul encourages us to live by faith and not by rules, laws or religion, Romans 1:17.

Robert Pate · Apr 13, 2017

Bard_the_Bowman said:
Poor Saint Paul was very, very confused then.

He probably wasn't even a Christian according to your way of thinking.

Philippians 2:12: "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

Saint Paul sure makes that sound like participating or cooperating with God.

Romans 11:14: "If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them."

1 Corinthians 9:22: "To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."

Poor confused Paul. He thought he could "save some".

Didn't he know sinners can't save sinners?

But then, those words are written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit so maybe, just maybe...Robert is wrong.

Peace.

Paul was not the savior.

Hearing and believing the Gospel is what saves, Romans 10:17.

beloved57 · Apr 13, 2017

Robert Pate said:
Paul was not the savior.

Hearing and believing the Gospel is what saves, Romans 10:17.

Heresy, The Blood of Christ is what saves a person, the fact that He died for that individuals sins.

Robert Pate · Apr 13, 2017

beloved57 said:
Heresy, The Blood of Christ is what saves a person, the fact that He died for that individuals sins.

This is why Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Salvation has been made available to EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9.

beloved57 · Apr 13, 2017

Robert Pate said:
This is why Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Salvation has been made available to EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9.

You teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost! That denies that He is the Saviour!

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Robert Pate · Apr 13, 2017

beloved57 said:
You teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost! That denies that He is the Saviour!

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You are parroting again.

beloved57 · Apr 13, 2017

Robert Pate said:
You are parroting again.

So are you !

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jsanford108 · Apr 13, 2017

Robert Pate said:
Catholicism is your Jesus. please remove Jesus from the cross. He is no longer on the cross. He now sits at the right hand of God as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

I think that Bard did a pretty good job at addressing all your claims; and you did an excellent job at not answering any questions.

But this is a point that I always find humorous. "Remove Jesus from the cross because he is no longer there." If this is actually the logic behind the claim, then why have an empty cross? (Which Protestants have) That is nothing more than a piece of wood.

Why not have images of Christ enthroned? (Oh wait, Catholics do have that, too....)

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Robert Pate · Apr 13, 2017

jsanford108 said:
I think that Bard did a pretty good job at addressing all your claims; and you did an excellent job at not answering any questions.

But this is a point that I always find humorous. "Remove Jesus from the cross because he is no longer there." If this is actually the logic behind the claim, then why have an empty cross? (Which Protestants have) That is nothing more than a piece of wood.

Why not have images of Christ enthroned? (Oh wait, Catholics do have that, too....)

Sent from my iPhone using TOL

I have never seen a statue in the Catholic church of Christ sitting on a throne.

The only one sitting on a throne in the Catholic church is the pope who thinks that he is Christ, Thessalonians 2:4.

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