ECT If By Grace Then It Is No More of Works

God's Truth said:

Paul is speaking about the ceremonial works of the law.
It is the WORKS of the law that made one righteous.

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you still have not provided any evidence that it was the ceremonial works of the law which resulted in a knowledge of sin. I have proved that it is the moral law which did that but as usual you have no use of any Scriptural proof which contradicts your preconceived ideas!

Jerry Shugart said:

you still have not provided any evidence that it was the ceremonial works of the law which resulted in a knowledge of sin. I have proved that it is the moral law which did that but as usual you have no use of any Scriptural proof which contradicts your preconceived ideas!

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The moral aspects of the law is what made Paul knowledgeable about sin.

The ceremonial law is what made him righteous to go to the temple to worship God.

The Jews had to work at cleaning themselves, now Jesus cleans us and no one has to do those works anymore.

Jerry Shugart said:

. You are unable to provide any evidence that it was the ceremonial laws of purification which provided the knowledge of sin. Therefore, you attack me personally:

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Your claim is false because Jesus says "if you love Me, keep My commands".

You should interpret everything according to Jesus' obedience word.

Jesus does not approve of "your works cannot save you" nonsense.

God's Truth said:

The moral aspects of the law is what made Paul knowledgeable about sin.

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Right. So let us look at this verse again:

Keeping the moral law plays no part in anyone being declared righteous before the LORD. Then just eight verses later Paul makes it plain that a person's justification is apart from the works of the same law, the moral law:

So according to Paul a person is declared righteous in the eyes of God and that righteouness has nothing to do with keeping the moral law. Instead, in that verse Paul makes it plain that the righteousness of which he speaks comes as a result of "faith."

Then just four verses later Paul uses Abraham as an example of someone who is saved apart from the moral law and explains that if it is of the works of the moral law then a person's justification before the LORD cannot be on the principle of "grace":

From this we can see that obeying the moral law and being justified on the principle of grace are mutually exclusive. You are in error when you assert that no one can be justified in the eyes of the LORD apart from obedience.

meshak said:

Jesus does not approve of "your works cannot save you" nonsense.

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Did the Lord Jesus approve of how Paul answered the following question in the way that he did?:

Jerry Shugart said:

Did the Lord Jesus approve of how Paul answered the following question in the way that he did?:

'And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

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that does not negate Jesus' obedience word.

meshak said:

Your claim is false because Jesus says "if you love Me, keep My commands".

You should interpret everything according to Jesus' obedience word.

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Who was Jesus talking to, Meshak? Was he talking to Jews or to Gentiles?

JudgeRightly said:

Who was Jesus talking to, Meshak? Was he talking to Jews or to Gentiles?

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It does not matter who He was talking to.

All His word for the world. Jesus is the whole world. This basic principle of Christianity.

You guys try so hard to make up you own gospel.

meshak said:

It does not matter who He was talking to.

All His word for the world. Jesus is the whole world. This basic principle of Christianity.

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Then sell all that you have for the poor, you lying thief. He said to do it -- SO DO IT.

Or do you really hate Him?

meshak said:

that does not negate Jesus' obedience word.

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To which cult do you belong where they teach you to stop using your brain? The answer given here is either true or it is false:

If no one can be saved by believing and nothing but believing then the answer given there is not true. And whether or not you can understand this truth the answer given there does in fact negate the idea no one can be saved apart from obedience.

It makes me sick to see you cultists just parrot the same old preposterous arguments which only the most gullible people on the face of the earth would believe.

I often wonder if people like you are really as stupid as you seem to be or if they have another agenda, a hidden one:


Are you really as stupid as you seem or do you just have a hidden agenda?

Jerry Shugart said:

To which cult do you belong where they teach you to stop using your brain?

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They are Watchtower.

https://jwvictims.org/dont-bother-a...itnesses-theyre-not-there-to-provide-answers/

If the questions get uncomfortable for them, stray from the outline of the material they present, or are simply over their head, they will typically leave, never to be seen again. Ask these questions on a public forum like Twitter or Facebook, and you’re sure to simply get banned or will have them gloss over the questions, even asking pointless questions back to you like, “What hope do you have in Satan’s world?”

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Yup.

meshak said:

It does not matter who He was talking to.

All His word for the world. Jesus is the whole world. This basic principle of Christianity.

You guys try so hard to make up you own gospel.

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It matters if He was talking to only a specific group of people. Meshak, where are your Bible verses to back up your claims?

Jerry Shugart said:

Are you really as stupid as you seem or do you just have a hidden agenda?

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It's not an either/or, Jerry.

JudgeRightly said:

It matters if He was talking to only a specific group of people. Meshak, where are your Bible verses to back up your claims?

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Jesus is speaking to EVERYONE. Paul calls it Jews first then Gentiles.

Jesus' words are SPIRIT and full of LIFE.

Do you really not recognize those scriptures?

musterion said:

Then sell all that you have for the poor, you lying thief. He said to do it -- SO DO IT.

Or do you really hate Him?

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You are nothing more than a worker.

Who wants you to merely accuse?

Who wants you to insult?

Who want you to do nothing but only believe?

JudgeRightly said:

Who was Jesus talking to, Meshak? Was he talking to Jews or to Gentiles?

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Jesus was not talking to just any Jews, he was only speaking to the Jews who already belonged to God by faith.

When Jesus was lifted up then all could come to him to be saved, Jew and Gentile, even the Jews who helped get him crucified.

You are stuck as in a trap and you need to get out of that trap, but first you will have to deflate yourself and do what Jesus SAYS TO DO, and that is to humble yourself. Start there and then continue to do everything he says.

Jerry Shugart said:

Did the Lord Jesus approve of how Paul answered the following question in the way that he did?:

'And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

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Those people had to hear the message. The message is about repenting of your sins to have life.

See Acts 10:44, Acts 11:15, Acts 16: 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. 33 At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized.


Did you hear that?

They had to hear the message that saves and it is the message that says to repent of your sins.

God's Truth said:

Jesus is speaking to EVERYONE.

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God's Truth said:

he was only speaking to the Jews who already belonged to God by faith.

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Within 5 minutes of each other.

Jerry Shugart said:

Right. So let us look at this verse again:

"wherefore by works of law shall no flesh be declared righteous before Him, for through law is a knowledge of sin" (Ro.3:20).

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There are aspects of the law…we have to have wisdom to figure out which of it was nailed to the cross, and which of it is good, and which of it is no more, and nailed to the cross.

When anyone speaks of the old law, it is about the whole old law, because if you looked to the old law to save you, you would have to do everything it says.

However, there is a new law, and still, we have to do everything that the new law says…it is the old law with some changes. Surely you see that Jesus came to earth and taught some of those changes. He also did not teach many things that were in the old law. He then died and the old law works were nailed to the cross.

You must acknowledge those truths or you cannot get past your false ideas.


Colossians 2:14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

Colossians 2:20
If you have died with Christ to the spiritual forces of the world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its regulations:

Ephesians 2:15 by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace

Ephesians 2:15 by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace


You must see that Jesus came to earth to give us the rules and regulations of a New Covenant.

Jesus did not preach how and when to get physically circumcised; Jesus taught how to get circumcised in the heart.

Paul says God nailed circumcision of the flesh to the cross; that means all the ceremonial works were nailed to the cross.

Jesus did not preach how and when to celebrate special days, he taught that those special days ware about him.

Jesus taught that he will clean us, and that is why Paul says we have to have faith, we have to have faith that Jesus alone cleans us---but we still have to do right and repent our sins to Jesus.
We still have to do right and abstain from evil.