Fair and Charitable Debate

Catholic Crusader

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
Okay. I would really like folks to give this a listen. Just put aside the usual jabs and barbs for once and give it a listen.

It is an mp3 of an old episode of the "Bible Answer Man", a protestant AM radio show. The guest is (a very young) Dr. Scott Hahn. He is a former Presbyterian Pastor who became a Catholic and is now Professor of Scripture & Theology at Franciscan University in Steubenville. His counter-part on the show, ironically, is a former Catholic who became a Presbyterian!

I like this recording because both sides are charitable and fair. You won't see charges of "apostasy" and "traditions of men" tossed about between these two thoughtful men. And even though I am no fan of the "Bible Answer Man", he plays a pretty fair moderator on this episode. It really is good to listen to, and is a fine example of how people of differing views really ought to debate in love, respect, and charity. (Yes yes, I know I am no saint when it comes to that matter, so I will listen again too.)

Here is the link, and I hope to hear thoughtful comments: http://www.philvaz.com/ScottHahnBAM1990.mp3
 
Crucible

Crucible

BANNED
Banned
Calvinism has always been more at odds with Roman Catholicism than Lutheranism because Calvinism is only catholic in it's core theology whereas Lutheranism is catholic wholesale.

That's why Lutherans and Roman Catholics have a partial communion where exchange traditions. Calvinism, however, still has the same particular hand gesture up at them as it did five centuries ago.

This is largely due to the fact that Calvin was rigid and complete on a reformed view whereas Luther, despite his 99 knocks against the Church, still favored more than Calvin did of their doctrines. The dogma of baptism is a good example.

They were both predestinarians, and they both held to infant baptism- these two things specifically are a conundrum among many other protestants, who typically follow Arminius- a former, dissenting student of Calvin- and his opposing theology to Calvin's sovereign election. Those Christians, in part, comprise the Methodist communion, founded in the 1700's when the English Church experienced it's own schism.

All these denominations, however, have something common in their founding literature and it's that the papacy is the seat of the Antichrist.
Let's rewind to the Lutheran church- they now share, nonetheless, a partial communion with the RCC which is a bit contradictory, but it shows how those of different beliefs no matter how opposed can still more than 'get along'.

Therefore, it's not surprising that a Presbyter and a Catholic can debate without attacking one another. But could this happen with a Catholic and an Arminian Baptist or a Calvinist Baptist?
Not so likely- one thing to realize is that Luther was formerly of the RCC, the Presbyters were originally Catholic lords, anon anon- it's not really about theology, but the heritage.
 
Catholic Crusader

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
Nonon said:
I wish we could have a discussion on this forum without a thread being filled with logical fallacies that frustrate me to no end
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I agree.

Crucible said:
Calvinism has always been more at odds with Roman Catholicism than Lutheranism because Calvinism is only catholic in it's core theology whereas Lutheranism is catholic wholesale.........

............it's not surprising that a Presbyter and a Catholic can debate without attacking one another. But could this happen with a Catholic and an Arminian Baptist or a Calvinist Baptist?...........
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I think anybody can be civil to each other if they want to be. I would say, though, that it is probably easier to debate when there are less points of division. But still, while they agree on much, the differences between these two are still profound.
 
Catholic Crusader

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
Catholic Crusader

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
glassjester said:
Yikes - that was a year and a half ago; I barely remember it. And the link is dead now. :(

Sorry, haven't been on here much, lately.
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The link works. I just clicked it. It should open an audio player in your browser. If it doesn't then right-click on it and download the audio file and play it on whatever application your computer uses.
 
glassjester

glassjester

Well-known member
CatholicCrusader said:
Oh I'm sorry. I thought you were talking about the link in the OP: http://www.philvaz.com/ScottHahnBAM1990.mp3

That one works. That one is the debate.

The one you are clicking on does not work. That is Scott Hahn's conversion story.

Here is a new link, its on Youtube but its the exact same audio track:

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Awesome, thanks (again)!

I'm listening to it again. This time it won't take me a year and half to get back to you!
 
Catholic Crusader

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
I forgot, why you were interested in his conversion story?
The beginning of this show has the very short 8 minute version followed by a very interesting Q&A

 
glassjester

glassjester

Well-known member
CatholicCrusader said:
I forgot, why you were interested in his conversion story?
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Well... I never said I was, lol. But you linked it, and I figured I might as well give it a listen. I typically enjoy most Christian and especially Catholic apologetics videos, so it's right up my alley.

I also have a very close friend who's a non-denominational Christian. We often talk about Catholic/Protestant differences, and I'll send him links to podcasts or videos every once in a while. So I'll sometimes listen to things with him in mind - to see if it's something that might be valuable to him.
 
Catholic Crusader

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
glassjester said:
Well... I never said I was, lol. But you linked it, and I figured I might as well give it a listen. I typically enjoy most Christian and especially Catholic apologetics videos, so it's right up my alley.

I also have a very close friend who's a non-denominational Christian. We often talk about Catholic/Protestant differences, and I'll send him links to podcasts or videos every once in a while. So I'll sometimes listen to things with him in mind - to see if it's something that might be valuable to him.
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That's nice. You're one of the few nice people here. That's refreshing. LOL.
 
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