Is God Truly All Powerful?

Please keep in mind that I am a christian and I believe that God is the most powerful thing that can exist, but it seems to me, strickly from a logical, human standpoint that God isn't all powerful. Now, what I mean by this is that God cannot cease to exist, cannot lie, and cannot sin. All powerful would mean that there is NOTHING that He could not do, so following that chain of logic, is God really all powerful?

Re: Is God Truly All Powerful?

Originally posted by ninjashadow

Please keep in mind that I am a christian and I believe that God is the most powerful thing that can exist, but it seems to me, strickly from a logical, human standpoint that God isn't all powerful. Now, what I mean by this is that God cannot cease to exist, cannot lie, and cannot sin. All powerful would mean that there is NOTHING that He could not do, so following that chain of logic, is God really all powerful?

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Those are interesting observations. I believe, as well, that God isn't "all powerful" if by all, it includes the illogical. I believe that God cannot sin because it is against His nature. I tend to put this in the absurd/illogical catagory as well.

Ninjashadow--The fact that God is omnipotent is often understood by people as Him having the power to do anything, but the Biblical concept of God's omnipotence is expressed by Christ--"all power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."

The sun has no power to shine apart from the power which God gave it. Likewise, He is the source of all other forms of energy. Paul told the Athenians, "He gives to all life, and breath, and all things."

That is true of all things. To the Romans, Paul said, "there is no power but of God. The powers that be are ordained of God."
Therefore everyone who believes that they "live" and "move" and "have their being" independently of God are denying to God that reverence which they are obligated to render toward Him, and daring to claim the glory of it for themselves; but as Paul said, "In him we live and move and have our being."

Moses warned the Hebrews not to boast of any of their wealth
"because it is God who gives you power to get wealth."

Therefore the omnipotence of which the Bible speaks is not a power which sometimes slumber but is able to do any feat of power. It is instead the power of God which invigorates and moves all things; without which only death could exist.

Re: Is God Truly All Powerful?

Originally posted by ninjashadow

Please keep in mind that I am a christian and I believe that God is the most powerful thing that can exist, but it seems to me, strickly from a logical, human standpoint that God isn't all powerful. Now, what I mean by this is that God cannot cease to exist, cannot lie, and cannot sin. All powerful would mean that there is NOTHING that He could not do, so following that chain of logic, is God really all powerful?

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i've never heard anyone define "all powerful" as meaning "there is nothing that he could not do".

:blabla: How many times have we heard this already?

Originally posted by Mr. 5020

:blabla: How many times have we heard this already?

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sorry, I'm kind of new to the site and I didn't know it had been done before. My apologies.

Originally posted by ninjashadow

sorry, I'm kind of new to the site and I didn't know it had been done before. My apologies.

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Actually, I was just :spam:ing.

But I did post a thread like this a while back, quoting the "cannot deny," "cannot lie," and "cannot sin" verses. I think the general consensus is that omnipotent does not mean CAN DO ANYTHING.

However, the question remains: is it that God cannot do these things, or will not do these things?

5020 has no power to draw one breath except by that power given to him by God, the fountain of ALL power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Deny Him the glory for the life He gives you, live as an ingrate, as if you are autonomous, having no need of Him; as if you live, breath and move by your own power--and answer for it on the day of judgment!!

BTW, when is the day of judgement?

Originally posted by Jackielabby

BTW, when is the day of judgement?

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Booking early, are we?

Originally posted by On Fire
Booking early, are we?

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Well, according to the manual, the only unknowns are the day and the hour.

That leaves the year, the month and the week as open game.

Don't worry about when, Jackie. He will see to it that we are there when we are 'pose to be. Sumthin' like an offer we can't refuse, this is one appointment we can't miss.

A modern philosopher, which one I don't recall, said, "Nonsense, said about God, remains nonsense."

Originally posted by Mr. 5020

Actually, I was just :spam:ing.

But I did post a thread like this a while back, quoting the "cannot deny," "cannot lie," and "cannot sin" verses. I think the general consensus is that omnipotent does not mean CAN DO ANYTHING.

However, the question remains: is it that God cannot do these things, or will not do these things?

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Cannot...it is not a limitation on omnipotence to not do the logically absurd or self-contradictory (creating a square circle or making a rock so heavy He cannot lift it). Omnipotence means to be able to do all that is DOABLE. Likewise, omniscience is to know all that is knowable (hence, Open Theism and not exhaustive foreknowledge of future contingencies). The issue is basic logic and philosophy. How we define and understand terms is important. Omnipotence also does not mean that God does everything that He could possibly do.

omni-power

omni-power

Originally posted by ninjashadow

Please keep in mind that I am a christian and I believe that God is the most powerful thing that can exist, but it seems to me, strickly from a logical, human standpoint that God isn't all powerful. Now, what I mean by this is that God cannot cease to exist, cannot lie, and cannot sin. All powerful would mean that there is NOTHING that He could not do, so following that chain of logic, is God really all powerful?

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Greetings ns and all,

I would gather all-powerful means that all power is inherent within Deity as the primal Source of Power in all dimensions of being. God is Power. God is All. If God is the One and Only Supreme Being,....the Sole Intelligence,...Universal Consciousness,....Eternal Spirit,.....Divine Presense,......Mind....that IS......then in this sense of the Omnificence of Spirit...He/She is Omnipotent in the higher, greater absolute realm of That which IS Now...the All-ness of ONE.

Being that we have understood 'power' in proper perspective....we can then give all power, glory, honor and blessing unto God...for He is the Source, mediator, Governor, Master of all these attributes and bestowals. He being Spirit, plus his other omni-attributes: omniscience, omnipresence, omniaction...........renders Him as the Sovereign ONE....God the Whole....the All. Since God is All.....He includes all powers within Him as their only source and substance.

His is Omni-power. To give Him power is to acknowledge that He is the Sole ONE....besides whom there is no other. Nothing exists outside His power or beyond it...since He is the Fullness and totality of all that Exists in Truth. - the one Consciousness, Intelligence, Spirit, Mind, Being, Light, Love, Truth THAT FOREVER IS.


paul

Re: Is God Truly All Powerful?

Originally posted by ninjashadow

Please keep in mind that I am a christian and I believe that God is the most powerful thing that can exist, but it seems to me, strickly from a logical, human standpoint that God isn't all powerful. Now, what I mean by this is that God cannot cease to exist, cannot lie, and cannot sin. All powerful would mean that there is NOTHING that He could not do, so following that chain of logic, is God really all powerful?

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This is an OV/CV debate and I am pretty tired of seeing it actually. Personally, I believe God is all powerful and to say or imply that he isn't is limiting Him. And yes, I feel calling something illogical because we think it's illogical is limiting as well.

That's all I got to say on the matter.

Well, I started this thread awhile ago. I have a philosophy of religion class and I was just looking for some ammunition.

Originally posted by ninjashadow

Well, I started this thread awhile ago. I have a philosophy of religion class and I was just looking for some ammunition.

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Okay, gotcha.

Re: Re: Is God Truly All Powerful?

Re: Re: Is God Truly All Powerful?

Originally posted by SOTK

This is an OV/CV debate and I am pretty tired of seeing it actually. Personally, I believe God is all powerful and to say or imply that he isn't is limiting Him. And yes, I feel calling something illogical because we think it's illogical is limiting as well.

That's all I got to say on the matter.

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Omnipotence is being able to do all that is doable. It does not mean that God has to do everything He possibly can do, nor does it mean that He can do logically absurd things. How can black be white at the same time? God is not irrational and there is order in His universe. It is not a limitation on God's omnipotence to not be able to make creation, crucifixion, President Bush, and the Second Coming happen in the same millisecond. This is literally impossible and absurd due to the nature of reality and God's creation. Absurd, contradictory things are excluded from reality and do not impinge on 'all power'. Can God make a car a cow or a person at the SAME time? Nope. We could think of endless examples. 2+2=4 in God's world as well as ours (unless we arbitrarily redefine things to make 2+2= 5 and 2+2= 15 at the same time...sorry, but it is logically impossible).

God is all-powerful.

He is also all-knowing...and everywhere present.

All of His attributes is what He is. And...He never uses any of His attributes against all the other attributes, as though they are each a separate entity.

He is all knowing..and that to me means He cannot fail, and He knows what He's doing, and where we're going.

He is everywhere present...which means there is no place to get away from Him if you try.

And He is all powerful means He upholds all that is, and there is nothing in this universe He created that can ultimately undo His purpose and will.

He is Love...which means all things work together for the good of those who love Him.