As They Hate Me, They Will Hate You Too

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Free-Agent Smith

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"Pagans" never think they're bigots. They just think they're right. And because they think they're right, they also often think they're the one's being persecuted when the people they would abuse, or others, object to such treatment.

Racial bigots, for example, really believe that they are superior because of their race. They really believe that people of the race that they're scape-goating are inherently stupid, lazy, shiftless, and morally weak, etc. They don't believe that they're being bigots because they don't believe that they "hate" these scape-goats. They can't see their own hatred because they have thoroughly convinced themselves that all their derogatory ideas about these other people are based on the truth "or at least some form of the truth". They can't see that they've made it all up, and that they're unjustly persecuting other people as a result. In fact, a lot of bigots will even convince themselves that they're some sort of martyr, just doing their sad duty as they lynch the errant nigger, or burn a witch at the stake, or gun down a train load of Jews. Or in the less extreme cases, they busily work to deny other people their freedom, their livelihood, their protections under the law, and their dignity. Bigots never think they're bigots because they always think they're right, and they don't understand (and don't want to understand) that it's exactly this assumption of their own righteousness that causes them to be bigots in the first place.
I took it upon myself, with artistic exxaggeration, to edit this post to show that the hatred is as easily directed at Christians or any other group of people.
I don't hate any of the non-Christian people here. I will say that I don't agree with your belief systems or perspectives but that is a right I am allowed to voice. By that same right, I am also allowed to not accept it also. Christians are persecuted because we cherish the lives of the innocents like children and because we choose to protect their rights also, whether they have been born or still in the womb.
Christians are persecuted for their system of beliefs and moral because it limits the actions of others, especially when it could result in more harm than good. Christians believe that sexuall immorality can lead to many problems that otherwise could be easily avoided if sex is left between two monogomous adults rather than homosexuals, pedophiles, child molestors and or rapists.
Christians feel the prejudice when they are mocked for showing their love, loyalty and faithfullness to the one true God. Christians have been hated because of those who have choosen to use God as a shield to try and hide their cruel intentions towards others. For example; the Spanish Inquisition slaughtered conservative Christians calling them heretics, the Roman Empire fed Christians to lions for entertainment, some were cut open and their body cavity stuffed with corn and fed to pigs.

Christians are hated because they want to take actions that could prevent possible harm in the future, for example when we support the death penalty. Why would anyone want to endager more lives by letting murderers, rapists, child molesters or terrorists go free?
 

PureX

Well-known member
The thing you completely overlooked, here, is that no one is proposing that you be denied your freedom, your livelihood, your protections under the law, and your dignity simply because you're a Christian. We're all free to be bigots in our minds, in America, but unfortunately a lot of bigots don't stop there. They want their bigotry expressed in our laws and often backed up by violent force.

Do you think religious bigotry against homosexuality should be backed up by the violent force of civil law?
 

Delmar

Patron Saint of SMACK
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
"As They Hate Me, They Will Hate You Too" The title of the thread says it all.
 

Free-Agent Smith

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PureX said:
The thing you completely overlooked, here, is that no one is proposing that you be denied your freedom, your livelihood, your protections under the law, and your dignity simply because you're a Christian. We're all free to be bigots in our minds, in America, but unfortunately a lot of bigots don't stop there. They want their bigotry expressed in our laws and often backed up by violent force.

Do you think religious bigotry against homosexuality should be backed up by the violent force of civil law?
Why is it against the law in the first place?

Any idea on how we got the ideas on which things to outlaw?

Do you know any atheists that are against homosexuality or any other sexual perversion? Let's not leave non-Christians out of the bigotry.
 

Crow

New member
deardelmar said:
"As They Hate Me, They Will Hate You Too" The title of the thread says it all.
Yup. Now all that's left to do is to be hated for some of the same reasons. Talk about a tough act to follow.
 

PureX

Well-known member
Free-Agent Smith said:
Why is it against the law in the first place?
Because the people who wrote those old "blue laws" were bigots. These are the same people who also wrote similar laws against blacks and women voting, and against driving automobiles inside the city limits, and against all sorts of things.
Free-Agent Smith said:
Any idea on how we got the ideas on which things to outlaw?
The same place we got the idea that slavery was sanctioned by God, I suppose.
Free-Agent Smith said:
Do you know any atheists that are against homosexuality or any other sexual perversion? Let's not leave non-Christians out of the bigotry.
There are all kinds of bigotry among all kinds of people. But that doesn't really make it OK, does it?

You didn't answer my previous question: do you think religious bigotry against homosexuality should be backed up by the violent force of civil law? And I'll add a question: if you do think so, then why wouldn't it be equally reasonable that "Pagan" bigotry against Christians should be backed up by the violent force of civil law, too?
 

Free-Agent Smith

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PureX said:
Because the people who wrote those old "blue laws" were bigots. These are the same people who also wrote similar laws against blacks and women voting, and against driving automobiles inside the city limits, and against all sorts of things.
What exactly are the "blue laws" ?
The same place we got the idea that slavery was sanctioned by God, I suppose.
There are all kinds of bigotry among all kinds of people. But that doesn't really make it OK, does it?
Everyone is bigoted against something. Intolerance is one of the main definitions of bigotry. I am a bigot because I am intolerant of homosexuality. You are a bigot because you are intolerant Christians.
You didn't answer my previous question: do you think religious bigotry against homosexuality should be backed up by the violent force of civil law? And I'll add a question: if you do think so, then why wouldn't it be equally reasonable that "Pagan" bigotry against Christians should be backed up by the violent force of civil law, too?
As far as "the violent force of civil law", show me how Christians have used it in a violent way. Are you talking about the ones concerning domestic violence?
 

PureX

Well-known member
The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition.**2001.

blue laws:

Legislation regulating public and private conduct, especially laws relating to Sabbath observance. The term was originally applied to the 17th-century laws of the theocratic New Haven colony; they were called “blue laws” after the blue paper on which they were printed. New Haven and other Puritan colonies of New England had rigid laws prohibiting Sabbath breaking, breaches in family discipline, drunkenness, and excesses in dress. Although such legislation had its origins in European Sabbatarian and sumptuary laws, the term “blue laws” is usually applied only to American legislation. With the dissolution of the Puritan theocracies after the American Revolution, blue laws declined; many of them lay forgotten in state statute books only to be revived much later. The growth of the prohibition movement in the 19th cent. and early 20th cent. brought with it other laws regulating private conduct. Many states forbade the sale of cigarettes, and laws prohibited secular amusements as well as all unnecessary work on Sunday; provision was made for strict local censorship of books, plays, films and other means of instruction and entertainment. Although much of this legislation has been softened if not repealed, there are still many areas and communities in the United States, especially those where religious fundamentalism is strong, that retain blue laws. The Supreme Court has upheld Sunday closing laws ruling that such laws do not interfere with the free exercise of religion and do not constitute the establishment of a state religion.
 

PureX

Well-known member
Everyone is bigoted against something. Intolerance is one of the main definitions of bigotry. I am a bigot because I am intolerant of homosexuality. You are a bigot because you are intolerant Christians.
I'm not intolerant of Christians, I'm intolerant of religious bigotry when it seeks to abuse or oppress other people. I'm also intolerant of racial bigotry, sexual bigotry, and political bigotry under the same conditions. I don't really care if you want to say I'm bigoted against bigots. I think it's a pretty silly claim to make, but if it makes you feel better about yourself, then knock yourself out.
As far as "the violent force of civil law", show me how Christians have used it in a violent way. Are you talking about the ones concerning domestic violence?
When Christians seek to outlaw homosexual acts, they are seeking civil violence as a means of enforcing their bigotry against homosexuals. Civil laws are enforced by violence, after all.
 
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Granite

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Free-Agent Smith said:
I took it upon myself, with artistic exxaggeration, to edit this post to show that the hatred is as easily directed at Christians or any other group of people.
I don't hate any of the non-Christian people here. I will say that I don't agree with your belief systems or perspectives but that is a right I am allowed to voice. By that same right, I am also allowed to not accept it also. Christians are persecuted because we cherish the lives of the innocents like children and because we choose to protect their rights also, whether they have been born or still in the womb.
Christians are persecuted for their system of beliefs and moral because it limits the actions of others, especially when it could result in more harm than good. Christians believe that sexuall immorality can lead to many problems that otherwise could be easily avoided if sex is left between two monogomous adults rather than homosexuals, pedophiles, child molestors and or rapists.
Christians feel the prejudice when they are mocked for showing their love, loyalty and faithfullness to the one true God. Christians have been hated because of those who have choosen to use God as a shield to try and hide their cruel intentions towards others. For example; the Spanish Inquisition slaughtered conservative Christians calling them heretics, the Roman Empire fed Christians to lions for entertainment, some were cut open and their body cavity stuffed with corn and fed to pigs.

Christians are hated because they want to take actions that could prevent possible harm in the future, for example when we support the death penalty. Why would anyone want to endager more lives by letting murderers, rapists, child molesters or terrorists go free?

Sorry, last time I checked the Spanish Inquisition didn't kill "conservative Christians." Try again.

Smith, I don't hate you or anyone else here, and dismissing criticism as "hate" is hyperbole and inaccurate. If your skin is this thin you need to get out more.
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Free-Agent Smith said:
So Snopes hasn't found support for the reason Blue Laws were so called...

Perhaps they weren't printed on a specific color paper. What does that mean? You certainly aren't claiming that Blue Laws havn't existed in the US, are you?

Remnants of the "Blue Laws" or "Sabbath laws" were only finally stricken from the Virginia State Code in 2004... http://pf.inc.com/criticalnews/articles/200407/bluelaws.html and, according to A Readers Companion to American History "About three-fourths of the states still carry on their books laws imposing some kind of Sunday restriction on such activities as retail sales, general labor, liquor sales, boxing, hunting, or barbering, as well as polo, cockfighting, or clam digging."

In West Virginia, where I reside, the "Blue Laws" prohibit purchase of beer or wine between 2 a.m. on Sunday morning (bar closing on Saturday night) and 1 p.m. on Sunday afternoon. Establishments that sell liquor for off-site consumption must either close or lock up the liquor on Sundays.
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Free-Agent Smith said:
...I don't hate any of the non-Christian people here.
That's big of you, Smitty. I don't hate you either. :nono:

I will say that I don't agree with your belief systems or perspectives but that is a right I am allowed to voice. By that same right, I am also allowed to not accept it also.
Why would you accept a perspective or belief system you didn't agree with? That sounds either weak-willed or disingenuous, to me.

Christians are persecuted because we cherish the lives of the innocents like children and because we choose to protect their rights also, whether they have been born or still in the womb.
Aww, stop whining. :doh: You "Christians" live in a country in which thousands of sects of your religion are free to call each other names, condemn each other to hell, picket each other's activities, etc. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they hate you or are actively persecuting you...

Christians are persecuted for their system of beliefs and moral because it limits the actions of others, especially when it could result in more harm than good.
When persecution actually exists it's usually for reasons of power. For example, your system of beliefs and morals doesn't negatively impact me in the slightest until you try to mandate it for everyone else by making it into law. As the old saying goes, your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins. Once you injure me or my family, I will oppose you every step of the way until you back down.

Christians believe that sexuall immorality can lead to many problems that otherwise could be easily avoided if sex is left between two monogomous adults rather than homosexuals, pedophiles, child molestors and or rapists.
I think that many non-Christaans, myself included, would agree with such a statement. Your problem is that you seek to create a false dichotomy - an "us versus them" demarkation based solely on religious belief. Christians are a minority of the world's population and to, even in hyperbole, propose that they maintain the corner on moral thinking and behavior is simply not supportable by observation of the people around the world.

Christians feel the prejudice when they are mocked for showing their love, loyalty and faithfullness to the one true God.
Not by me. Christians only feel prejudice from me when they attempt to force their religion down my throat; as I mentioned above.

Christians have been hated because of those who have choosen to use God as a shield to try and hide their cruel intentions towards others. For example; the Spanish Inquisition slaughtered conservative Christians calling them heretics, the Roman Empire fed Christians to lions for entertainment, some were cut open and their body cavity stuffed with corn and fed to pigs.
The Spanish Inquisition slaughtered hundreds of people, many who were not Christian. People were dying in the arenas before the founders of Christianity were born. And let's not forget that one conservative Protestant country, Switzerland, exiled hundreds and executed up to 40 Anabaptists during the mid- to late-16th century. Protestant courts also stripped Anabaptists of their property, declared children of Anabaptist marriages illegitimate and confiscating the estates. By the end of the 17th century Christians not practicing state-approved religion risked being flogged, branded, sentenced as galley slaves, and if too old to row, imprisoned for life. (Excerpts from the Mennonite Encyclopedia)

Christians are hated because they want to take actions that could prevent possible harm in the future, for example when we support the death penalty. Why would anyone want to endager more lives by letting murderers, rapists, child molesters or terrorists go free?
I don't know. Ask your fellow pacifist Christians who oppose the death penalty... :think:

- Orthodox Church Leader

- United Church of Christ

- United Methodist Church

and two very conservative Christian groups,

- Society of Friends (Quakers)

- Mennonite
 
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PureX

Well-known member
Free-Agent Smith said:
I will say that I don't agree with your belief systems or perspectives but that is a right I am allowed to voice. By that same right, I am also allowed to not accept it also. ... Christians are persecuted for their system of beliefs and moral because it limits the actions of others,
That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Christians, like any other Americans, are allowed to "not accept" the belief systems that they don't agree with, yet they seek to force their own belief systems on everyone else. And then they shout "persecutuion!" when the people they actively seek to oppress try to claim their own right to "not accept" these attemps to "limit the actions of others" (that's called oppression).
Free-Agent Smith said:
Christians believe that sexuall immorality can lead to many problems that otherwise could be easily avoided if sex is left between two monogomous adults rather than homosexuals, pedophiles, child molestors and or rapists.
That's all well and good. And Christians are free to follow those beliefs in their own lives all they wish. The problem is that they don't stop there. They want to force everyone else to follow those beliefs, too. And that's when they become aggressors, would-be oppressors, and the enemies of everyone else's freedom.
Free-Agent Smith said:
Christians feel the prejudice when they are mocked for showing their love, loyalty and faithfullness to the one true God.
They are mocked because they call bigotry and the desire to oppress other people "love, loyalty and faithfullness to the one true God". And it's not "prejudice" that causes people to fight against Christians who seek to abuse and oppress them in the name of their God and religion. It's called defending themselves.
 

Granite

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Making yourself a public target, spouting your own version of virtue, and insisting you have a relationship with God Himself, will guarantee SOMEONE out there won't agree with you.

Yet Christians scream foul the minute somebody takes them to task.

Convenient.
 
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