This simple gospel truth just escapes those "faith only" followers.
Jesus and Jesus Alone Saves to the Uttermost, Hebrews 7:25.
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
This simple gospel truth just escapes those "faith only" followers.
Tnkrbl123!
New member
I think that is where you are missing the point. And he is not disagreeing that we have a role to play by accepting Jesus Christ and being obedient to Him. If we love Him we will live out our love by following His commands and nobody is disagreeing with that. But the point is that all of that, and any ACTION that we do whether it be obedience or acts of love is absolutely useless if Jesus had not acted FIRST. Forgive me that I struggle to put my thoughts into words as well as other do but I am trying. The point that is being made is that any action or work we do no matter how righteous or obedient it is means absolutely nothing if Jesus did not act first. Does that make sence. Nobody can disagree that if we love the Lord we should and will want to show that by our acts of obedience and yes they are important. But Jesus' act of obedience had to come first. His life death and resurrection, all done in obedience to the Father is the ONLY act that has any value to our salvation because if that had not taken place then we could work and act until our fingers and hearts bleed but we are sinners and we cannot do anything righteous or save ourselves no matter how good our intentions are and no matter how much our hearts are in the right place unless Jesus saved us first. Does that help you understand the main point of what he is saying and how nobody disagrees with you that we must show obedience but all of this comes AFTER Christ acted FIRST? I hope I expressed myself ok
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Tnkrbl123!
New member
What version are you using? because you are using a version that reads "also" and I am unable to find that word in any of the accurate and we'll accepted versions that I and many other biblical scholars use. If you can tell me what you version you are using I can help you understand what the word "also" means in that context. I think you may be misunderstanding the sentance you are reading because the word "also" in that version seems to be only used to connect two sentances together and not to mean there is any other way.
Maybe reading that verse in a few other very well accepted and academic translations will help you to understand that verse better and what it is saying to the reader.
I know that certain versions such as the KJV are written in Elizabethan English and you have to be well versed in old English to get the correct understanding of the verse in the way our modern understanding of English would have you understand it. That language may be English but it is far removed from the way we understand the language today.
Here are some great modern translations that may help you have a better understanding of that verse:
This is NIV
"Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them"
This is ESV
"Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermostthose who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them."
This is NRSV
"Consequently he is able for all time to save those who approach God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them."
You can clearly see that the word "also" is absent from any of these translations. It seems from these examples the word "also" in your translations seems to be another way of saying "consequently" or "therefore"
Tnkrbl123!
New member
What is GM?
glorydaz
Well-known member
He one of our finest posters here on TOL...Grosnick Marowbe, and LA is always calling down some horrible "hex" upon him.
God's Truth
New member
There is a message that saves, and no one will be saved unless they do what Jesus says to get saved, and that is to those who repent of their sins.
God's Truth
New member
The scripture you referenced says those born of God do not sin.
Why do you ask someone who preaches obedience to Christ if they sin?
Are you mocking what is said in 1 John?
marhig
Well-known member
GT we must obey God and do his will, but we cannot overcome this flesh without the power of the Holy Spirit, even Jesus himself said to the father, you have given me power over all flesh. If Jesus needed the help, then we certainly do!
We can't do anything without God.
God's Truth
New member
If you do not do what the Way says and repent of your sins to be saved, then you will not get saved.
marhig
Well-known member
I agree, I'm not talking about being saved once we hear and believe the word and repent and turn to God, I'm talking about the Holy Spirit saving us from sin daily and helping us to overcome. Without God it is impossible for us to overcome our flesh.
The laws help us to put sin to death, but we need the life within through faith by the grace of God to overcome and be saved every day. And once we have the life within, we are born of God and we then walk in the spirit. And we then aren't under the law, because they are written in our hearts and in our minds, and we are obeying God willingly because we love him with all our hearts. If we're not obeying God and doing his will, then we're not pleasing him and Jesus says that to enter into heaven we are to live by the will of God.
We establish the law through faith and love. If we love the Lord our God with all our heart, and all our soul, and all our mind, and our neighbour as ourselves, then it says that the Bible that law and the prophets hang on those two commandments. ( Matt 22:37) then God will save us daily and give us the strength through Christ by the power of the Spirit to overcome.
There is only one that has overcome and it is not you. You were born a sinner and will die a sinner.
God's Truth
New member
You speak evil. You do not speak things from God.
We have to overcome.
There are those who overcome.
The first book in the Bible tells us who and what Israel is. See Genesis 32:28.
Genesis 32:28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.”
And Jesus in the last book of the Bible confirms this message. See these scriptures in Revelation. Read what Jesus says about overcoming.
Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
Revelation 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.
Revelation 2:17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.
Revelation 2:26 To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations–
Revelation 3:5 He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
Revelation 3:12 Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.
Revelation 3:21 To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.
Revelation 21:7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.
And there is only one way a person can overcome this world, and that is through Jesus Christ our Savior.
1 John 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
Therefore, who and what is Israel---Israel is people who overcome by faith in Jesus Christ.
Just as Jacob is called Israel by overcoming, we too are Israel by overcoming by faith in Jesus.
God's Truth
New member
You say things that are somewhat off and wrong, for you are the one who went against me for saying we have to obey Jesus to be saved.
Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
You must do what Jesus says. You must do what Jesus says to go to God.
marhig
Well-known member
Where did i go against you to say that we have to obey Jesus to be saved? How can we have faith in God and not obey Jesus?
Those who don't obey Jesus and God are far from saved. You should know me better by now, and i thought you'd know that i believe this?
God's Truth
New member
Look at what you said to me. Why have you been going against me? You said no one can obey unless they have the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey, see Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."
You can't overcome because you are still in the flesh.
The only ones that are overcomers are those that are "In Christ". To be "In Christ" means that you are trusting in HIS righteousness and in HIS atonement for your sins. You are trusting in yourself.
God's Truth
New member
marhig
Well-known member
Can you show me which post your referring to? Because i certainly didn't mean that we can't obey God unless we have the Holy Spirit. We can't overcome without the Holy Spirit but we can obey. And we won't receive the Holy spirit unless we obey and do the will of God!
marhig
Well-known member
To be in Christ we have to have the indwelling Holy Spirit and he will give us the power to overcome. If we are not overcoming the lusts of our flesh, then we haven't received the power of the Spirit!
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
KJ
21
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give the holy Spirit to them that ask Him?”