The beast with two horns like a lamb

ThreeAngels

ThreeAngels

New member
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon- Revelation 13:11
The prophet describes the rise of America with these words. The lamb's horns symbolize her gentleness, youth, and innocence as John saw her coming up. The speaking as a dragon part is yet future and is the action of the judiciary and legislature to force conscience in the part of religion.
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
ThreeAngels said:
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon- Revelation 13:11
The prophet describes the rise of America with these words. The lamb's horns symbolize her gentleness, youth, and innocence as John saw her coming up. The speaking as a dragon part is yet future and is the action of the judiciary and legislature to force conscience in the part of religion.
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Your interpretation cannot be correct and here is why:

Deuteronomy 18:21-22 KJV
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Do you have another two thousand years to wait around and see if the words of the Apocalypse come to pass? If you do not have two thousand years to spend waiting and watching then what makes you think those in the first century had that much time to spend waiting and watching to see whether the Apocalypse was truth or not? See what I mean? There is no doubt that the one who penned the Apocalypse believed and adhered to the Torah; even that passage which I have quoted from Deuteronomy above. In addition the author of the Apocalypse says the following:

Revelation 1:1-3 KJV
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

And as well there are other similar statements made clear enough in the same book of the Apocalypse. If therefore you say that any portions of the book of Revelation have still never yet occurred, (as well as any statements from Messiah himself such as found in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and the Luke companion passages), then your version of those words is a false version, coming from the voice of false prophets, whom we are commanded not to fear or heed in Deut 18:22. What this means is not that the words of Messiah in the Gospel accounts are wrong, not that the words found in the Apocalypse are wrong, but rather that your interpretation of those words cannot be correct.

Also, Yohanan is a Kohen, (Priest). ;)
 
ThreeAngels

ThreeAngels

New member
daqq said:
Your interpretation cannot be correct and here is why:

Deuteronomy 18:21-22 KJV
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Do you have another two thousand years to wait around and see if the words of the Apocalypse come to pass? If you do not have two thousand years to spend waiting and watching then what makes you think those in the first century had that much time to spend waiting and watching to see whether the Apocalypse was truth or not? See what I mean? There is no doubt that the one who penned the Apocalypse believed and adhered to the Torah; even that passage which I have quoted from Deuteronomy above. In addition the author of the Apocalypse says the following:

Revelation 1:1-3 KJV
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

And as well there are other similar statements made clear enough in the same book of the Apocalypse. If therefore you say that any portions of the book of Revelation have still never yet occurred, (as well as any statements from Messiah himself such as found in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and the Luke companion passages), then your version of those words is a false version, coming from the voice of false prophets, whom we are commanded not to fear or heed in Deut 18:22. What this means is not that the words of Messiah in the Gospel accounts are wrong, not that the words found in the Apocalypse are wrong, but rather that your interpretation of those words cannot be correct.

Also, Yohanan is a Kohen, (Priest). ;)
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The Christians in the first centuries could not Scripturally expect Christ to come in their generation. The apostle Paul warned against this when he said that the day of Christ should not come, "except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4. The falling away which is the great apostasy that resulted in the formation of the Catholic church has now happened and the man of sin who is the pope has now been revealed. It is now biblically correct to expect the return of Christ.
 
ThreeAngels

ThreeAngels

New member
daqq said:
Your interpretation cannot be correct and here is why:

Deuteronomy 18:21-22 KJV
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Do you have another two thousand years to wait around and see if the words of the Apocalypse come to pass? If you do not have two thousand years to spend waiting and watching then what makes you think those in the first century had that much time to spend waiting and watching to see whether the Apocalypse was truth or not? See what I mean? There is no doubt that the one who penned the Apocalypse believed and adhered to the Torah; even that passage which I have quoted from Deuteronomy above. In addition the author of the Apocalypse says the following:

Revelation 1:1-3 KJV
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

And as well there are other similar statements made clear enough in the same book of the Apocalypse. If therefore you say that any portions of the book of Revelation have still never yet occurred, (as well as any statements from Messiah himself such as found in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and the Luke companion passages), then your version of those words is a false version, coming from the voice of false prophets, whom we are commanded not to fear or heed in Deut 18:22. What this means is not that the words of Messiah in the Gospel accounts are wrong, not that the words found in the Apocalypse are wrong, but rather that your interpretation of those words cannot be correct.

Also, Yohanan is a Kohen, (Priest). ;)
Click to expand...
The Christians in the first centuries could not Scripturally expect Christ to come in their generation. The apostle Paul warned against this when he said that the day of Christ should not come, "except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4. The falling away which is the great apostasy that resulted in the formation of the Catholic church has now happened and the man of sin who is the pope has now been revealed. It is now biblically correct to expect the return of Christ.
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
ThreeAngels said:
The Christians in the first centuries could not Scripturally expect Christ to come in their generation. The apostle Paul warned against this when he said that the day of Christ should not come, "except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4. The falling away which is the great apostasy that resulted in the formation of the Catholic church has now happened and the man of sin who is the pope has now been revealed. It is now biblically correct to expect the return of Christ.
Click to expand...

Please tell me if you can see Thessalonica on this map:


seven-churches.GIF



Then, once you find Thessalonica, please tell me how far you think that is from the Temple in Jerusalem. Then, once you realize how far it is, can you please explain how a congregation that was 800 to 900 miles away is supposed to be watching for the man of sin and son of perdition to enter into the physical Temple building made with hands in Jerusalem, in the first century, and proclaim himself to be God, exalting himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God? Because I simply cannot see how such a belief would have been possible in the first century without TV, or internet, or satellites, or smart phones, or cell phones, or computers, or video cameras, or aircraft, or even electricity. Are you saying Paul wrote things to the Thessalonians he knew would never have any impact on them because they would never see such events come to pass in their lifetimes? Don't you think something is upside-down and terribly wrong with that scenario? Do you honestly believe the Spirit spoke to Paul to write things to the Thessalonians that would never affect them because those things would not be coming to pass for another 1950 years and counting? What? Know you not that your body is the temple of Elohim? :)

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 ASV
16 Know ye not that ye are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man destroyeth the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, and such are ye.

1 Corinthians 6:15-20 ASV
15 Know ye not that your bodies are members of Christ? shall I then take away the members of Christ, and make them members of a harlot? God forbid.
16 Or know ye not that he that is joined to a harlot is one body? for, The twain, saith he, shall become one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 Or know ye not that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which ye have from God? and ye are not your own;
20 for ye were bought with a price: glorify God therefore in your body.

This all has to do with the parables and teachings of the Master. :)
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
ThreeAngels said:
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon- Revelation 13:11
The prophet describes the rise of America with these words. The lamb's horns symbolize her gentleness, youth, and innocence as John saw her coming up. The speaking as a dragon part is yet future and is the action of the judiciary and legislature to force conscience in the part of religion.
Click to expand...
The two horns represent the two aspects of the government; ( Horn = the strengths) America is a Republic with a Democratic process. The word "Lamb" is used as a parable to imply that that nation appears to be a Christian nation. The word "dragon" is used as a parable to imply that there is a Secret Society at the head of the government, and that it holds to things that are (Anti-Christ, or Anti-God.)
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
3A - No one wants to hear the SDA/Amazing Facts prophecy seminar. Your understanding of prophecy is a joke and 1948 proved it. The last days will revolve around Jerusalem not Rome. Jerusalem will tell Rome what to do like she always has.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
Epoisses said:
3A - No one wants to hear the SDA/Amazing Facts prophecy seminar. Your understanding of prophecy is a joke and 1948 proved it. The last days will revolve around Jerusalem not Rome. Jerusalem will tell Rome what to do like she always has.
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[FONT=&quot]Beast Are Kingdoms Or Nations[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Psalm 57:4
I am in the midst of lions; I am forced to dwell among ravenous beasts— men whose teeth are spears and arrows, whose tongues are sharp swords.

Daniel 7:17
‘The four great beasts are four kings that will rise from the earth.

Daniel 7:23
“He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it.

Revelation 16:10
The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony

Revelation 17:11
The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

Revelation 17:12
“The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
CherubRam said:
[FONT="]Beast Are Kingdoms Or Nations[/FONT][/B]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Psalm 57:4
I am in the midst of lions; [B]I am forced to dwell among ravenous beasts— men whose teeth are spears and arrows[/B], whose tongues are sharp swords.

[B]Daniel 7:17
‘The four great beasts are four kings that will rise from the earth.[/B]

Daniel 7:23
“He gave me this explanation: ‘[B]The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom[/B] that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it.

Revelation 16:10
The fifth angel poured out his bowl on [B]the throne of the beast, and its kingdom[/B] was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony

Revelation 17:11
[B]The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king.[/B] He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

Revelation 17:12
[B]“The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom,[/B] but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
Click to expand...


King and kingdom are interchangeable in the old King James. The prince of Persia was a fallen angel. Satan is called the king of Babylon and prince of Tyre in Isaiah and Ezekiel. Beasts are angels and the horns on top are the human kings they control. A beast with four heads represents four angels. A beast with ten horns represents ten human kings it controls.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
Epoisses said:
King and kingdom are interchangeable in the old King James. The prince of Persia was a fallen angel. Satan is called the king of Babylon and prince of Tyre in Isaiah and Ezekiel. Beasts are angels and the horns on top are the human kings they control. A beast with four heads represents four angels. A beast with ten horns represents ten human kings it controls.
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Show us the scriptures that support this, Quote: "Beasts are angels and the horns on top are the human kings they control." This translation is not correct. Quote: "A beast with four heads represents four angels." The correct translation is (living being) It is a parable about four messengers in the last days. Enoch This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.' 10 And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days. Phanuel is also called Peniel.
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
Revelation 5 gives a picture of a Lamb with seven horns. The Lamb is Jesus and the horns are 7 angels which is a little different but definitely not a kingdom. The bible interprets itself and Satan took the form of a serpent and is called a lion by Peter and is a dragon in Revelation.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
Revelation 1:19-20.
“Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. The mystery of the Seven Stars that you saw in my right hand and of the Seven Golden Lampsticks is this: The Seven Stars are the messengers of the Seven Congregations, and the Seven Lampsticks are the Seven Congregations.
 
ThreeAngels

ThreeAngels

New member
CherubRam said:
The two horns represent the two aspects of the government; ( Horn = the strengths) America is a Republic with a Democratic process. The word "Lamb" is used as a parable to imply that that nation appears to be a Christian nation. The word "dragon" is used as a parable to imply that there is a Secret Society at the head of the government, and that it holds to things that are (Anti-Christ, or Anti-God.)
Click to expand...
Chapter 13:11 says, "he spake as a dragon". The speaking is the action of the legislature and judiciary. Speaking as a dragon contradicts the character of the lamblike horns. This points to the rise of intolerance and persecution in the nation.
 
ThreeAngels

ThreeAngels

New member
CherubRam said:
Show us the scriptures that support this, Quote: "Beasts are angels and the horns on top are the human kings they control." This translation is not correct. Quote: "A beast with four heads represents four angels." The correct translation is (living being) It is a parable about four messengers in the last days. Enoch This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.' 10 And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days. Phanuel is also called Peniel.
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The book of Enoch directly contradicts the Bible.
 
ThreeAngels

ThreeAngels

New member
CherubRam said:
The book of Enoch and the Bible both have corruptions in them. Discovering the truth requires a spirit of discernment.
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God has preserved His word - the Bible - free from corruption. "The Bible is the end of all controversy"- Christ's object lessons, Ellen White - and the standard by which all truth is measured. The book of Enoch fails this test.
 
R

Rondonmonson

New member
ThreeAngels said:
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon- Revelation 13:11
The prophet describes the rise of America with these words. The lamb's horns symbolize her gentleness, youth, and innocence as John saw her coming up. The speaking as a dragon part is yet future and is the action of the judiciary and legislature to force conscience in the part of religion.
Click to expand...

What would John have understood a "Prophet" to have been? A Jewish Man who prophesied for God, thus a False Prophet will be seen to be a Jewish man who tries to appear to be of God, but who is actually of Satan.
 
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